Lore talk:Ysmir Collective

Merger with Lore:College of Winterhold?

Now that we've got a proper lore page for the College of Winterhold, should we merge this? The Ysmir Collective seems to be the name for a different library which was destroyed, and I'm assuming much of that library's contents were transferred to the College's Arcanaeum library. We can spell that out easily enough on the College's page (something like "The Ysmir Collective, a library in the east, was rescued from destruction, and its content presumably absorbed by the Arcanaeum").

If PGE3-Skyrim, the one and only source for the term, gives the impression that the Ysmir Collective became an independent library in Winterhold, I think this impression was false. Even if it was a separate library, considering the Great Collapse, it's highly doubtful we will ever get more information on it, and this page will just remain a small stub for all eternity. I think there's very little chance they were referring to two separate libraries in Winterhold, especially since PGE3 refers to the Collective as a cornerstone of academic life at the College.

Frankly, I believe some TES writer didn't put in his due diligence when he called the College's library the Arcanaeum. I mean, one of the head Skyrim writers didn't even know the difference between Aedra and Daedra ... Minor Edits^{Threats•Evidence} 00:07, 19 September 2012 (GMT)

Agreed. There is no indication that the Ysmir Collective will ever receive much mention again. Besides, the PGE clearly states that the Collective is (or at least was) an integral part of the College:

"Scholars from all over Tamriel have descended on the county since it became home to the Ysmir Collective, a library rescued from destruction in the east, and the cornerstone of academic life at the College of Winterhold."

Could it be that the Collective was renamed to Arcanaeum due to the Talos ban? I mean, there's no mention of Arcanaeum in any of the sources predating the Great War. Well, either way, it's speculation. Definitely for the merge. -- Kertaw48 (talk) 11:01, 19 September 2012 (GMT)

I don't think it's entirely correct to conclude that the Arcanaeum and the Collective are the same thing without any sort of direct statement saying as much. It comes too close to what could be considered original research, in my opinion. I seem to remember a line of Urag's dialogue mentioning that the Arcanaeum was from the Second Era - if someone can pin down the quote, it might have a use as a reference to help verify the claim. When in doubt, it might just be better to treat them as two separate libraries on the CoW article. After all, I believe the College did suffer some losses during the Great Collapse, so the disappearance of an entire section wouldn't be out of the question.

That said, I agree that this stub is useless as an individual article and needs to be assimilated into either the Winterhold or the CoW page. —Legoless (talk) 18:49, 21 September 2012 (GMT)

The specific dialogue Urag mentions is about the Arcanaeum itself. When the player says "This is quite an impressive library.", Urag will reply with: "A mage is only as good as what he knows. I try and make sure as much knowledge is available as possible. We've been keeping this collection since the Second Era. Books have come and gone during that time, but it's mostly intact." Is this the specific piece of dialogue you were after in reference? -Helenaannevalentine^(talk) 18:56, 21 September 2012 (GMT)

That looks like the one. It seems to imply that the Arcanaeum has remained unchanged since the Second Era, yet the third PGE makes it sound like the Ysmir Collective was a Third Era addition to the city. I can't really see any sort of connection between the two libraries. —Legoless (talk) 20:22, 21 September 2012 (GMT)

(←) Well, I edited the College's page. I thought it prudent to simply say the relation is not clear in a note and leave the speculating to the readers, since there are at least four plausible in-game explanations. Anyways, if there are no objections, I'll redirect in about a week, unless someone beats me to it. Minor Edits^{Threats•Evidence} 19:04, 28 September 2012 (GMT)

If the current article is to be turned into a redirect, the Ysmir Collective's history should probably be moved to the CoW's main text. The new note sufficiently explains its absence in Skyrim IMO. —Legoless (talk) 19:17, 28 September 2012 (GMT)