Lore talk:Veloth

Date of Veloth life and Chimer migration

Hi everyone,

The ESO "lore" is generally incoherent and inconsistent with the rest of the lore, here we have a good example.

According to this article, based in Veloth the Pilgrim and his cyrodiilic author, Veloth led the chimer out of Summmerset in Late-Middle Merethic Era... and after cite According to the contemporary texts so supposedly the author use "old primary sources".

Well... not only The True Nature of Orcs but I'm pretty sure that some more previous (to eso) books contradict this idea. In the Dawn Era article in this wiki you can see this too...

And simply, how many years lasted the High Velothi period (centuries? too much for this "eso lore") if in the Late Meretic Era this period of chimer culture ends, according to Before the Ages of Man? Veloth begin his migration in Late Middle Meretic Era, and the end of a seated, sedentary High Velothi culture ends in Late Meretic Era?

Sorry for my horrible english. I'm improving it.

--Illo (talk) 08:23, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

So there is definitely a contradiction here, but in this case I actually lean a little more towards to ESO perspective (in Veloth the Pilgrim). Other sources tell us that the Aldmeri didn't even live in Tameriel before the Merethic Era, so it hardly makes sense for there to be a dissident movement breaking out from them in the Dawn Era as The True Nature of Orcs claims. So I would place Veloth's life and pilgrimage around the middle of the Merethic, with the High Velothi period lasting at least several centuries. -- Hargrimm^(T) 16:43, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

This is really interesting, but a little out of place discussion, so I will answer you with my perspective of the problems of the general Merethic history, in your discussion page, ok?

--Illo (talk) 21:44, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Race

Though the followers of Veloth became the Velothi, or Chimer, I don't see how Veloth himself could be one. He should just be an Aldmer, no? This is a similar case to Orgnum, who split off from the Aldmer and his followers became a different race over time (and probably using magic). Mindtrait0r (talk) 20:57, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

I honestly am neutral on this, but his only in-game depiction is one of Chimer. Of course, those need not always match the lore, but the Chimer difference from Aldmer was always very murky. His model, when removed ghost glow is the one that ESO uses for Chimer - golden Elves of the Dunmer height. (https://esomodelviewer.com/characters/post/181-saint-veloth) Tyrvarion (talk) 22:18, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Ah so this actually raises a good point. There’s a few angles we can analyze this, for one there’s very few Aldmer individuals we know of in the lore. There’s even less that we know of that were born Aldmer and were/are still alive in the more modern setting. The two would be Orgnum and Mannimarco. If we look at the visual appearances of Orgnum and Mannimarco by the time of the modern setting, they look the same as the native race as their homeland, Maormer and Altmer respectively. This aligns with the Pge3 lore that states the Aldmer began to culturally and eventually physically change racially depending on what province they went to

"The Aldmer changed over time culturally according to their new environments, being at first temperamentally and then physically very distinct "races" separate from one another."

Therefor while you are right that by the time Veloth and his people departed from Summerset Isles in the Middle Merethic Era they would have been Aldmer, the appearance he takes on in eso clearly is from the point in which he had already become a Chimer given as Tyr pointed out the visual consistency he shares with other Chimer. Therefor I think we can either keep the race the same as it is now on the page or perhaps more ideally, put Aldmer and Chimer into the race box and explain the nuances of this in a note box similar to what is done on the Mannimarco page. Dcking20 (talk) 22:13, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

If ESO went out of their way to make him a Chimer rather than something simple like an Altmer or Dunmer, I would go with him being Chimer by the time he got to Resdayn. However, I do believe he suffers from the paradoxical state of Aldmer figures, where many of them changed into something else over time. Take Orgnum and (allegedly) Mannimarco, Orgnum was an Aldmer who is believed to now be a Maormer king, and Mannimarco claims to be an Aldmer but now looks like an Altmer. We'll never know what the Aldmer looked like due to the Tower of Babel events that split the elven races, hence why these figures appear to have changed their races during their individual lifetimes. It stands to reason that Veloth began an Aldmer and later on became a Chimer. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 06:53, 12 December 2023 (UTC)