Lore talk:Land Transportation

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Airships?[edit]

what about airships? They have appeared in morrowind, shadowkey (I think), and redgaurd . . . they are fairly important form of transportation, almost always with dwemer parts . . . the sload also use them, but I dont know if the sload ones are dwemer. 71.238.243.98 05:21, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Dragons?[edit]

I noticed that Dragons have just been added to the page. Your average traveler is unlikely to even get close to a dragon never mind use them for transport. Infact as far as I can remember only Miraak and the Last Dragonborn have even rode a dragon. Should this be listed here? — Kimi the Elf (talk | contribs) 03:47, 21 March 2013 (GMT)

I wouldn't think it should really be a mode of transportation. Because it's not, really. It's not Skyrim-specific, it's Dragonborn-specific. It's also not really transportation--sure you can use it to travel, but dragons aren't there for travel, they're there to reach a goal. Vely►t►e 03:52, 21 March 2013 (GMT)

Propylon Indices[edit]

"Only one index exists for each fortress"

I'm wondering about this statement. Sure, in the game, there is only one Index for each Fortress. However, this is the Lore section, not a gamespace. Would it really be the case that only one Index was made for each Fortress? The Propylon network seems to be some sort of ancient mass transit network. I can't imagine it was only for use by a single person, who was in possession of the unique Indices. As we know, the games express a simplified version of the world of the Elder Scrolls as depicted here in Lore. Wouldn't there, by extension, have been many more such Indices in the world? Daric 02:14, 19 July 2013 (GMT)

I'm not sure about the time when the network was originally created, but according to lore, there is only one index for each fortress. It is possible that there were more, but there is nothing to support it. Jeancey (talk) 02:30, 19 July 2013 (GMT)
Would it not then be better to say that "Only one Index is known to have survived the ages, for each fortress" or something similar? Daric 02:47, 19 July 2013 (GMT)
Because that implies that there WAS more, which we have absolutely no evidence for. All the evidence we have suggests that there was always exactly one index per fortress. We don't know for sure, and there is nothing specifically saying there WEREN'T more, but without any evidence to support there ever being more at all, we can't even imply it, which is what that sentence would do. It basically says, there were more than one per fortress and we THINK there is only one now, but there could be more than one per fortress currently, which isn't true at all. Jeancey (talk) 02:53, 19 July 2013 (GMT)
I understand what you're saying, but that logic seems to deny the obvious difference between "lore" and "game" as I pointed out earlier. I'm trying to wrap my head around this dichotomy. For instance, the Lore Content Guidelines advise that "Gameplay details should be avoided in Lore articles". How then do we account for the limitations of hardware memory (RAM) that the developer's had to negotiate when creating the games? Is the Imperial City really that small, according to lore? If Khajiit have the Eye of Fear power, why don't I (being of another race) get afraid when I see a Khajiit? These things are related to gameplay, not to lore (in the latter example, greater and lesser powers only apply to the Player Character, not to NPCs, and there is no mention of powers on the Lore:Khajiit page anyway). Sorry, I'm just trying to understand how this works, the difference between "lore" and "game". Daric 03:13, 19 July 2013 (GMT)
From what I understand, it isn't really game CONTENT that we leave out of lore, but game MECHANICS. What this means is that Khajiit can, at will, be scary, but are not constantly so. They have control over it. What stays out of lore is that they get to be scary once a day. Duration, power, damage, pretty much anything involving numbers that isn't a date stays out of lore if it isn't from a book. This includes population, sizes of towns, prices of things, etc. There is a little grey area when it comes to determining lore, but in general it is restricted to mechanics rather than result. Does that make sense? Jeancey (talk) 03:20, 19 July 2013 (GMT)

() That being said, would the fact that there is only ONE player character, and thus only need for ONE of each Index, be a game mechanic thing rather than a game content issue? 😆 Also, what exactly did you mean when you said above, "according to lore, there is only one..."? That seems to be a circular argument to me. Care to explain? Daric 03:38, 19 July 2013 (GMT)

No, that isn't a game mechanic. It is very clear that there is only one of each index when characters in the game speak of them. Anything beyond that is speculation resulting from thinking too hard. The people who created it probably didn't even think about WHY there was only one of each and that it would make more sense that there should be more. They just didn't and probably made a mistake. But we can't try and explain it here or imply that there was more than one of each at some point. We just can't. Jeancey (talk) 03:53, 19 July 2013 (GMT)
Thanks for the fuller explanation. I bow to your superior knowledge of Morrowind. I'm playing it through for the first time, at the moment, and I don't believe I have yet had an in-game conversation about the Indices. I only knew how to find them from reading the UESP Wiki. Daric 06:37, 19 July 2013 (GMT)
There are only a couple of people who talk about them in the base game. Do you have the master index plugin? Jeancey (talk) 08:15, 19 July 2013 (GMT)
I don't think so. I am playing Morrowind GOTY (Xbox), and I've only just noticed a Bloodmoon feature, so I do know that one is installed. I haven't noticed any specific Tribunal content as yet. Unlike the Oblivion GOTY (Xbox), I wasn't given the option to install the add-ons, they just were there in my Morrowind game.
Also, I notice that my Morrowind GOTY (Xbox) is running on my Xbox 360 as an Xbox Original game, without the need for any patch download for it to be able to work. There was some discussion prior to my buying the game, that I'd need to download a patch for it to work on the 360. Nope, didn't need it. It just works. Daric 08:55, 19 July 2013 (GMT)
Yeah, I'm fairly certain that the xbox GOTY doesn't have the smaller addons, just the expansions. So you might not have the master index quest line. Jeancey (talk) 17:00, 19 July 2013 (GMT)
If you want to check, try talking to Folms Mirel in Caldera. There have been reports before of people having the Master Index plug-in on Xbox, but it was never confirmed. —Legoless (talk) 20:43, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

Wayshrines[edit]

So in ESO you get around using wayshrines. Should these be mentioned in this page? - KINMUNE (TALK) 12:45, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

I don't think so, since it's only available to paragon soul shriven. See Lore:Wayshrines for more info. The transitus network in Cyrodiil is different though, since it seems to be just a wartime teleportation system usable by everyone. That could be added here. —Legoless (talk) 16:44, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Check?[edit]

Can someone check this new version of the article, please? Esh (talk) 07:32, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

That's a lot of information to process, but I can list a few issues that I've spotted after a quick glance.
  • You created your own names for a lot of places like roads and bridges (Xylo Bridge, Shor's Pass, Pinefrost Pass etc.), as well as assumed a lot of things that, while usually logically sound, are not yet proven by any actual source. A few examples:
The Mournoth Pass is one of the two main pass and roads leading through the Druadach Mountains. It is located between the Western and Eastern Reach, connecting the city of Markarth in Skyrim and Evermore in High Rock, just south of the Halcyon Lake.
While this definitely makes sense, and I personally think this is true too, we have no actual proof where this road emerges on the eastern side, and it is not named "Mournoth Pass" anywhere. Again, we should not invent our own proper names for geographical locations.
The Black Road runs east to west between the Imperial City and Chorrol. Just to the east of Chorrol, the road joins with the Orange Road. After reaching that city, the road continues to enter the Colovian Highlands towards Elinhir, in the Craglorn region, connecting so Cyrodiil with northern Hammerfell. The continuation of the Black Road leads from Elinhir towards westernmost Craglorn, where it divides into a northern branch to Dragonstar and a souther branch into the Fallen Wastes region. In that city, the road lead north across the Dragontail Mountains towards the Falkreath Hold, connecting so northern Hammerfell with southern Skyrim.
A lot of assumptions in here. I assume these routes are taken from the Arena map and matched with roads present in Oblivion and ESO. Trying to match the roads from Arena with the ones in the modern games doesn't seem like a good idea to me, as only some of them really correspond to something meaningful.
  • I would generally not describe roads in such detail (or even at all), because they change a lot through time, and the current desciption is a mashup of Arena, Oblivion, Skyrim, and ESO roads, all of which existed through completely different eras.
  • I really liked the descriptions of the mounts and ships. As far as I'm concerned, that was the best and the most meaningful part of the article.
These are the most serious issues I've been able to spot after a quick look - I hope the others can provide their own remarks, too. --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 10:49, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
I agree with Vordur's sentiments. There's no evidence that the Black Road extends beyond Battlehorn Castle, and making up our own names should not be done. I also don't think we need that big list of horse descriptions, since it neglects the breeds from TES4; this isn't an article about horses and should not need to go into that much depth. —Legoless (talk) 18:25, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
I agree with all of you. Can someone delete that information? Roads without references and horses...? Or summarize that, at least. Many thanks to you all Esh (talk) 20:14, 17 June 2017 (UTC)