Lore talk:Silvenar

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As a title[edit]

There are two books that reference 'Silvenar' as a title rather than a town:

"Who is the current Silvenar? Varbarenth, son of Varbaril."
"But he has many rights as the Voice of the People, including the granting of foreign building and trade contracts. It's not important whether you believe us. Just think of the Silvenar as being like one of your mad Emperors, like Pelagius. The problem facing us now is that since Valenwood is being attacked on all sides, the Silvenar's aspect is now one of distrust and fear of foreigners. The one hope of his people, and thus of the Silvenar himself, is that the Emperor will intervene and stop the war."

Is this sufficient to create a new page, or should it just be noted on this page that there are some references to Silvenar as a title? -- Hargrimm(T) 01:47, 26 November 2013 (GMT)

The latter. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 02:27, 26 November 2013 (GMT)
Wardens of the Green also treats it as some sort of title, I think, but it also may be speaking of the original Silvenar. I don't know; there's just not a lot of context. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 20:29, 27 February 2014 (GMT)
I can talk about this now. It is a title. You will encounter The Silvenar in Khenarthi's Roost. His dialogue and that of the people around him show that it is a diplomatic position, kind of like an ambassador. Jeancey (talk) 20:32, 27 February 2014 (GMT)
So now we run into the fun Vivec problem. Have (city) and (title) pages with this as a disambig? Have this as the city/title with an {{about}} referring to the other? I think I would favor this page being for the title, with the current contents moved to Silvenar (city). There's not much info about the city out there and evidently the person will have a notable role in ESO. -- Hargrimm(T) 20:42, 27 February 2014 (GMT)
I would do (city) and (title). Disambig pages aren't a bad thing. Jeancey (talk) 20:50, 27 February 2014 (GMT)

() I'd like to avoid a parenthetical clarification. I think it would be more appropriate in this case to make an exception and title the page "The Silvenar", and keep this page for the city, with an "about" template linking between them. It's not unprecedented to do this for a persona; see The Gray Fox.

I should've been paying more attention to A Dance in Fire. I should've analyzed it more thoroughly, particularly for my revamp of the Bosmer lore page, but I more or less disregarded it because it's historical fiction. Now I realize that, on this subject, at least, it was conveying accurate TES lore:

"He's the representative of the People, legally, physically, and emotionally," explained Jurus, a little annoyed at his new partner's lack of common knowledge. "When they're healthy, so is he. When they're mostly female, so is he. When they cry for food or trade or an absence of foreign interference, he feels it too, and makes laws accordingly. In a way, he's a despot, but he's the people's despot."

So the Silvenar is far more than a political office. Well, it is a title, and an ambassadorial political office, but the Bosmer have made a civilization out of nature, and it makes sense that the person who "represents the Wood Elves" would do so in a (super)natural way. And now, The Voice of the People has corroborated that there's more going on here:

"The title wasn't officially his until the wedding, but he could already feel the changes. Like the beat of a moth's wings near his ear, Indaenir felt his new identity whispering to him in quick pulses. It tickled. The Silvenar represented the Wood Elves. He or she would feel the will of the people and act upon it. The connection went both ways, as his or her influence could also sway the Wood Elves."

Basic rule of construction in interpreting TES lore: Challenged, hard-to-believe assertions about one's culture come true. "The Falmer are just a superstition." "All the Snow Elves are dead." "There's no such thing as the Nerevarine." "Silly Nords, Alduin is Akatosh." And in regards to the Silvenar, A Dance in Fire indicates that other races are skeptical about this purported psychic relationship. It's easy to see how it could be dismissed as just another weird Bosmeri quirk. But telepathic connections are an established part of the world already, and the Dwemer in particular already established that an entire race can share a telepathic link, so it's hardly a leap to think the Silvenar is what the Bosmer claim.

My ultimate point with this wall of text is that no parenthetical clarification we could give to an article on the Silvenar could possibly do it justice, so we really shouldn't try. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 06:09, 1 March 2014 (GMT)

I went ahead and posted an article to "The Silvenar". But if anyone's in objection to that, I'll gladly keep an open mind while I argue with you for a very long time. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 00:47, 10 March 2014 (GMT)