Lore talk:Necromancy

How does it work?

I was curious as to how raising the dead actually works in the Elder Scrolls series. I guess it involves summoning spirits to possess undead bodies, but if this is the case where do these spirits come from? Are they summoned from Aetherius?--86.129.77.9 15:19, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

I don't know offhand. Try reading some of the in-game books such as Corpse Preparation, Blasphemous Revenants, Ancestors and the Dunmer, and Arkay the Enemy. rpeh •T•C•E• 19:21, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for the links.--81.158.16.49 15:45, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Relmyna of tes:oblvion:shiveringisles said she created the gatekeeper by infusing an inanimate body with a daedric spirit.

Also, the book "The Exodus" tells a story of necromancers immortalizing each other via a similar process. Cholyn (talk) 20:22, 16 October 2013 (GMT)

Morrowind

This article doesn't mention the Dunmer's deep seated hate for necromantic arts and the outlawing of it in the province. It should shouldn't it? OblivionDuruza 00:30, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

well the article is pretty much just about mannicarmo (cant spell his name) and necromancy from oblivion, i think it needs some work on it (Eddie the head 08:19, 15 June 2011 (UTC))

Yes it should. Go ahead and add it. --SerCenKing ^Talk 14:40, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Mysticism?

The article currently says that Maanimarco originally used Mysticism to raise the dead. However, every game that Necromancy has appeared in links it to Conjuration (which makes more sense to me). The comment for Mysticism apparently is derived from Mannimarco, King of Worms where Galerion says "Your wicked mysticism is no way to wield your power". Since that reference to mysticism has a lower case letter M, I think that Galerion is simply using it to describe a type of magic he does not understand, not an actual school of magic. Given this, I'd like to suggest we change the text on this page to simply say "he used magic to raise and manipulate the dead." -Thunderforge 16:25, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Galerion uses the word Mysticism, so I added the text quote to clarify. The Silencer has spoken 16:38, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Daedra Lord Communion?

In Moss Rock Cavern, a necromancer lair, there is a shrine to both Molag Bal and Namira. I could speculate that the necromancers are bargaining with Molag Bal and that they share Namira's aesthetic, or just happened to inhabit her shrine. Does anyone have evidential information of the relationship between these two daedra lords and necromancy--primarily Namira? Eclecnec (talk) 19:44, 26 November 2012 (GMT)

I doubt the statues have any meaningful depth behind them. They were likely added simply for aesthetic purposes. Moss Rock Cavern has several other oddities, indicative that the dungeon developer spent a bit more time on it than he did on most of the generic copy-paste necromancer caves. —Legoless (talk) 23:11, 26 November 2012 (GMT)

Why is this all about Mannimarco?

The entire page (except the tomes, artifacts and a small passage about Morrowind) is about Mannimarco and his cult. What about the Soul Cairn or the other necromancy users like Durnehviir and N'Gasta? 101.173.127.235 07:54, 7 April 2014 (GMT)

Quite simply, because no one has taken the time to add anything else! There are far more articles than editors on the wiki, so some by necessity fall by the wayside. Feel free to add any relevant information, and I will add this page to my personal to-do list. Thanks for shining a light on it, this is a topic that deserves more coverage. -- Hargrimm^(T) 08:48, 7 April 2014 (GMT)

Confusion on Necromancy

There are three things that always confused me on this subject,

A) Is Necromancy a subset of Conjuration or Mysticism or a different school altogether?

B) Is summoning undead (Liches, shambles, etc.) counted as Necromancy?

C) Is Necromancy really only 1,000 years old? The way Durnehviir talks about it makes me think it is older. Mr.Omen (talk) 07:24, 8 April 2014 (GMT)

A) All of the schools are basically constructs of mortals that have no real basis in magic. They are arbitrary categories that mortals choose. At the time of ESO, for instance, they haven't even been created yet. That being said, Necromancy clearly shows aspects of both Conjuration and Mysticism, occasionally with some Restoration mixed in. The spells may be put into one school or another by each game though.

B) Usually, yes, this is counted as Necromancy, but in the technical sense, no it isn't.

C) Necromancy is old. Old, old. But as an organized group all practicing necromancy together, the Worm Cult started by Mannimarco is fairly recent. Prior to this there isn't really any evidence of groups of necromancers working together. They usually were by themselves and practiced in secret. If I am remembering my lore correctly that is.

Hopefully that answered your questions!! Jeancey (talk) 14:57, 8 April 2014 (GMT)

Notes on Revamp

I'm got a rough draft more or less completed for a revamp of this page, currently viewable here. I plan to review & hopefully streamline it a bit, but I'm going to get this monkey off my back soon. If you have any big concerns, now's the time to voice them.

A lot of assertions have gone uncited in this article because I think they qualify as basic information on the nature of the world. I mean, necromancy is everywhere in TES, something I didn't fully appreciate until now.

I'm going to try to beef up the Cyrodiil section a bit, but Cyrodiil's history with necromancy is long, and yet also pretty vague at parts. It's a bad combo, so I gotta stick to broad strokes.

Any issues with the Skyrim section? In particular, "[The practice of creating draugr] apparently ebbed amongst the Nords along with the fall of the Dragon Cult, though it apparently did not change immediately, as various historical figures were preserved in similar ways long after the Dragon Cult was reportedly eradicated in 1E 140." Off the top of my head, the Gauldurson brothers, Geirmund, and Borgas appear as draugrs (or at least similar to draugrs) in the game.

I'm glossing over and omitting a lot of potentially relevant info in these regional sections. I tried to leave some details to other pages, such as the Order of the Black Worm, because this page is long enough as it is. It's possible I omitted something really important to understanding the topic.

I decided against making a "notorious necromancers" list because it would be very long, and who should be on it could prove to be contentious.

I'm very open to image changes. Since necromancy is so pervasive in TES, there are undoubtedly many relevant images which don't turn up in an image search for "necromancer", so there could be some gems I'm missing. Insignificant Revisions^{Threats•Evidence} 22:43, 30 January 2015 (GMT)

I'd try to mention goblins being known to practice necromancy, as well as necromancy in the Shivering Isles (Relmyna and her flesh atronachs). Also, this is a far superior image of a lich. The Skyrim section reads fine, although I think it's established in ESO that 'draugr' are just Nord undead in general (which happily clarifies the lore of the original Solstheim draugr). —Legoless (talk) 22:53, 30 January 2015 (GMT)

Great suggestions, thank you. I can't find any ESO material on the wiki clarifying the nature of draugr, but a lot of ESO content is going to have to wait for someone more knowledgeable anyways. Insignificant Revisions^{Threats•Evidence} 01:41, 31 January 2015 (GMT)

(←) I think that pretty much does it. I feel there must be some good images out there we can use to break up the big wall of text from Black Marsh to Morrowind, but that should be easy to add when/if somebody finds something really fitting. Insignificant Revisions^{Threats•Evidence} 02:52, 31 January 2015 (GMT)

(edit conflict) Well I just read through the whole thing and find myself very glad you took my suggestion to revamp this topic which so desperately needed it! I would agree that 'draugr' is pretty much a blanket term for any undead Nord, with the Dragon Cult ones only being a specific subset. Bonestrewn Barrow's loading screen has a bit to say. My only suggestion would be to makes Notes a numbered list, since they are referred to numerically in the [nb 1] ref superscripts. As far as images N'Gasta is quite photogenic... -- Hargrimm^(T) 02:54, 31 January 2015 (GMT)

Incorrect Info

Per this edit: the information removed was not incorrect. Necromancers are known to use the powers of Oblivion (Soul Cairn, Molag Bal), and describing necromancers as "necromaniacs, sadists, and those who want to prove that their intellect is cutting edge" is nonsensical and unsourced. In comparison, the original lines are much less contentious. The power of souls is indeed significant, but I can't personally offer any source for the enticement of young mages. I've re-added the line about Oblivion along with a source (Serana's dialogue, which explains how necromancers conjure undead creatures), but I've left the second paragraph untouched for now. —Legoless (talk) 21:04, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Necromancers do rely on Oblivion, sometimes, but not all of the time, so it's not an inherent trait of necromancy. Destruction magic isn't necessarily an Oblivion craft. As for the reasons, I said that there are many reasons, and I included a few obvious ones.--Why obvious? I don't know how to explain it, but suffice to say, when I was depressed and antipsychoticed, I scored an IQ (best I've got) of 155; and you know how those with autism are bad with theory of mind--well schizophrenics have an opposite development of that part of the brain. I guess I have to say that. As for power... I took it out because the other resource schools can be just as powerful. Animperiallich (talk) 21:18, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Well, in Morrowind and Oblivion necromancers rely on Oblivion and the Conjuration School entirely, since in those games you were limited to undead summons. But I agree, the new revision is much more relevant. —Legoless (talk) 21:27, 5 September 2015 (UTC)