Lore talk:Breton

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Hands[edit]

Do Bretons really have such huge hands? — Unsigned comment by 84.67.175.26 (talk) at 00:30 on 4 November 2006

I am wondering basically the same thing because of the illustration on the page. Is there supposed to be something unusual about Bretons' hands which has just never been demonstrated in character models before? I'm working on this page trying to write an "appearance" section, and all I have right now is to point out their: eyebrows, ears, cheekbones, and pale skin.Minor Edits 03:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
This is an old question but I'd like to add that the general appearances Bretons have had, in every game, tend to change. In Arena and Daggerfall (and maybe Battlespire), Bretons are muscular, tan, and very manly (basically they appear very Nordic, but with dark or red hair). In Morrowind, they appear to be one of the less physically imposing races (they always kinda struck me as wimpy in that game), though they're finally pale. :p I have no knowledge of Oblivion and, in Skyrim, it appears that they are back to looking like dark-haired Nords again. When it comes to the Elvish features...I really haven't seen a Breton that appeared Elvish, except for maybe one of the male faces in Daggerfall. Mordack 04:34, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Half-Elves[edit]

1/2= more human than elf

wrong it would be more correct ot say that they are part elf — Unsigned comment by 68.61.76.75 (talk) at 21:24 on 27 November 2006

Well... technically they could be half elven... Bretons came from Nedic women being taken as concubines for Aldmer... and in Tamriel.. race comes from the mother — Unsigned comment by 139.55.49.205 (talk) at 07:17 on 14 July 2008
Of course, cross an elf and a man and you get nothing close to a Breton. — Unsigned comment by 24.31.156.165 (talk) at 02:43 on 26 July 2008
We have no way of knowing what % of elf and what % of human they are, best to say Part Human and Part Elf Talamare 02:51, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

The Elder Scrolls Arena[edit]

Should I add a link to The Elder Scrolls Arena's race page in the See Also section? Bryanmichael11 23:26, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

I don't see why not. And if you feel like something should be edited on any page, you don't always have to ask for permission ;) –Elliot talk 23:28, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
Okay. Thanks. Bryanmichael11 22:53, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Necessary?[edit]

Is this page necessary? All of the information here is on the Oblivion and Morrowind pages (word for word)— Unsigned comment by 212.159.115.7 (talk) on 05 November 2010

Actually, the words you are seeing on those other pages are being drawn from this one. --Brf 17:42, 5 November 2010 (UTC)


Druids of Galen[edit]

When choosing to play as a Breton in Arena, a brief infobox pops up, saying: "Know ye this also: Thy race is descended from the ancient Druids of Galen, quick witted and strong in the mystical arts. Thy folk are crafty and intelligent, a learned people who use their gifts to guide others to enlightenment..."

Is it relevant that they apparently are somehow related to an unknown group called the Druids of Galen? Worthy of being added to the Lore page?

Depends on how you do it. It'll have to be referenced, wedged into an appropriate spot on the page, it shouldn't introduce any game references into the text of the page, and it shouldn't be stated as a fact (so start the sentence with "it is said that ... ", "some claim that ... ", you get the idea). And be careful, because trying to revise or add anything to these race lore pages is soul-crushing. Have fun! Minor Edits 00:08, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Aldmer and Atmorans make up Bretons.[edit]

Per the revert by Jeancey. The statement on the page: "Aldmeri-Nedic Manmer of the Merethic Era and are now the inhabitants of the province of High Rock" - The source of this claim is Lore:Pocket Guide to the Empire, 1st Edition/High Rock - however it doesn't actually mention Nedes or Nedic anywhere. In fact, it instead mentions this line:

"...the Nords reasoned that the "Manmeri" beyond the Reach were, in fact, descended from human slaves taken during the Elven destruction of Saarthal."

These slaves were Atmorans, absolutely no doubt. Secondly, the book that does mention a Nedic connection is Lore:Pocket_Guide_to_the_Empire,_3rd_Edition/All_the_Eras_of_Man - specifically:

"The original Nedics of Skyrim are now known as the Nords. The ones who crossed west to High Rock, as we have said, interbred with the Aldmer there to create the Bretons"

Of course this is a classic example of the scholarly confusion that exists with the word "Nede". Why? because the same book makes the statement: "The Nedic people meanwhile came from the frozen land of Atmora to the north" - this means the scholar is refering to the Atmorans as Nedes. In common parlace (and all over this wiki), Nedes are what we call the First Era tribes of Cyrod, not the Atmorans. So even if they are specifically stated as Nedic/Aldmer in the book, it's not accurate, because it suggests Bretons are of tribal Cyrodillic origin. --Jimeee (talk) 23:07, 30 May 2013 (GMT)

Actually, I took it from the third era version, which states, unequivically, "The ones who stayed in Summerset became known as the Altmer; in Valenwood, Bosmer; in Morrowind, Chimer and Dwemer; in Cyrodiil, Ayleid; and in High Rock, a mix between Nedic and Aldmer birthed the Bretons." That's why I reverted it, because it is quite clear about it. Jeancey (talk) 17:29, 31 May 2013 (GMT)
I would stick to describing them as Nedic. "Nedic" often seems to be used very liberally to refer to early humans in general, and it could implicitly include Atmorans. Could be wrong, but that's the impression I've gotten. Also, the line "the Nords reasoned that..." tells us only that, what the early Nords reasoned; it doesn't claim to speak to the truth of the matter. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 18:16, 31 May 2013 (GMT)
@Jeancey - Yes, Nedics are mentioned in the line "The ones who stayed in Summerset became known as the Altmer; in Valenwood, Bosmer; in Morrowind, Chimer and Dwemer; in Cyrodiil, Ayleid; and in High Rock, a mix between Nedic and Aldmer birthed the Bretons." - but you are completely forgetting the same book also mentions "The Nedic people meanwhile came from the frozen land of Atmora" - If we used Nede as a catch all for all early humans on the wiki then this wouldn't be a problem, but we don't - so this is inconsistent.
@Minor Edits: Nordic is more accurate that Nedic. While agree the word Nedic may have been used to refer to early humans in older texts, it's no longer the case - the Lore:Nede article explains it better that I can. The pocket guides are full of inconsistencies and retcons - you know this more than anyone. I'm more concerned about consistency than being right - Nede is being used to refer to different things on the wiki, and it's not only confusing, but its part of the reason why people still confuse Nede and Atmoran and use the word interchangeably. To be honest, its becoming increasingly frustrating to see certain things implied or infered on some lore pages - but on other pages points are dismissed as not explicit enough or from a dubious source - if we play that game ME, then the entire set of pocket guides should be brought into question, because we all know that they are Imperial propaganda. Or how about the supposed fact that Sovngarde is located within Aetherius? The only source that backs up this claim is also dubious - the player's journal in Skyrim. --Jimeee (talk) 19:39, 31 May 2013 (GMT)
The Nede article looks like it might need some work to me. A lot of assertions, far too few references. We'll cross that bridge when come to it. Our goal here to stick to the source material, and we do the best with what we're given. Any inferences we make should be ironclad. I don't see how Nordic is more accurate than Nedic when we have two sources using the term Nedic for the Bretons' human ancestry and zero using the term Nordic or Atmoran. Consistency across the wiki is, of course, very important. Point out inconsistencies, and we'll try to resolve them. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 19:57, 31 May 2013 (GMT)
Nedes aren't from tamriel, they were from atmora. There were two main waves of migration, the first became the nedes, the second became nords. The nedes bred with the aldmer to create Bretons prior to the second wave of migration that brought the nords. Thus, simply saying that aldmer bred with atmorans is like saying Europeans breeding with Asians is really just Africans breeding with africans because we are all from africa. Once they got to tamriel and started to breed there, they were no longer atmorans. Thus, nedes is the specific term, even though they came originally from atmora. Jeancey (talk) 20:00, 31 May 2013 (GMT)
(edit conflict) Well said. Just to reiterate less eloquently: keep in mind that we're talking about the Bretons here; they're our focus. Discussion on the ancestry of the Nedes themselves is more relevant to the Nede page than it is here. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 20:04, 31 May 2013 (GMT)
"There were two main waves of migration, the first became the nedes, the second became nords." - Not how I read it. The tribes of Cyrod did not originate from Atmora. Men were created at the throat of the world. Those men that were displaced to Atmora after the Dawn Era wars became Atmorans, who eventually returned. Those that remained on Cyrod after the war became the Nedic tribes.--Jimeee (talk) 20:13, 31 May 2013 (GMT)
Really? "It is generally understood that neither the proto-elves, or Aldmer, nor the proto-men, or Nedics, lived in Tamriel during the earliest years of creation. The Hist trees of Black Marsh, most say, were the original life forms on our continent, followed by the progenitors of the modern Khajiit, the modern Argonian, the modern Sload, the modern Dreugh, and other "beast folk," some now gone our land, some so shy or rare that their presence is seldom detected." It clearly states that the nedic people were not FROM tamriel, but arrived there later. It later goes on to say that they came FROM atmora: "The Nedic people meanwhile came from the frozen land of Atmora to the north to what is today Skyrim." There is no ambiguity here. It very clearly states that they were from atmora. In the High Rock article, it states that when the Nords moved into High Rock, they attacked what they THOUGHT were elves, but it turns out they were half elf, half human, what we know today as bretons. Thus, bretons were here prior to the nords, and they were half nedic half aldmer, and the nedic half came, at some point, from atmora. Jeancey (talk) 20:18, 31 May 2013 (GMT)

Lifespan[edit]

Does anyone know how long Bretons tend to live? I know that elves tend to live very long and humans die relatively early. But when I was reading the Brief History of the Empire, the historian wrote that Cassynder Septim ascended to the throne middle aged and the next sentence goes: "Only half Elven, he aged like a Breton." Do Bretons live longer than the other races of men and have there been any accounts of Bretons living super long via the use of magic like many Dunmer do? — Unsigned comment by 71.201.38.163 (talk) at 21:27 on 15 August 2013

I'm not an expert by any means, but since Bretons are the result of an intermixing of Elvish and Human races, I would be surprised if they didn't have a longer life span than most humans. I haven't seen any accounts of Bretons using magic to lengthen their lifespan. That isn't very common even among the Dunmer as far as I know (Dumner can naturally live for at least 1000 years). In Morrowind, one of the oldest characters in the game, Dratha, was said to be kept alive by necromancy. If that's the only viable way to extend the lifespan of a person, I doubt there are many examples. --Ratwar (talk) 12:14, 17 August 2013 (GMT)