Lore talk:Battle of Red Mountain

The UESPWiki – Your source for The Elder Scrolls since 1995
Jump to: navigation, search

Reference[edit]

"The actual truth is that the Tribunal themselves deliberately killed Nerevar when he expressed concern at the Tribunal's own use of the Heart and wished to invoke Azura for guidance."

What? This is the Ashlanders version of the story, and they admit not one of them was there to witness it. The only one who could've confirmed this was Azura, and she did not, even though she repeatedly accused them of the crime of tapping the Heart of Lorkhan, not once did she add to that the crime of murdering Nerevar. If you read through the dialogs, she implies that the Tribunal were still loyal to Nerevar at the time of his death. — Unsigned comment by 68.190.50.241 (talk) at 01:52 on 25 July 2007 (GMT)

I agree. I got the idea that what exactly happened is a mystery that might never be solved but that it was probable that the Tribunal did not kill Nerevar. Vontos 22:09, 24 July 2007 (EDT)
Vivec confessed. And where is it ever called Lorkhan War? That sounds like a crappy anime series. Temple-Zero 22:04, 28 July 2008 (EDT)
So if this is an Ashlander's version of the story (Dagoth Ur and Nerevar killed Dumac and Kagrenac and used the Heart of Lorkhan to wipe out the Dwemer race) then does that mean that the source for this version of the story is game content form Morrowind? --DagmarH (talk) 02:26, 29 December 2012 (GMT)
I've been meaning to clean up this page; I'll cite appropriately. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 03:24, 29 December 2012 (GMT)

Lorkhan War[edit]

To reiterate Temple-Zero's concern above, there's no source for the term "Lorkhan War". User Benould added it to this page in 2008, but he's no longer active and thus can't shed any light. I was the one who added it to Vivec's lore page (I'll be removing it from there shortly), and I did so in reliance on this page. It doesn't appear anywhere else.

I thought maybe it came from the books, but the Infernal City wasn't published until 2009. I did my best to comb through the Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim game data for the term and found nothing (though I'm no expert at searching through the game data). I searched the web to see if another site had a source listed for the term, but none did. I have this nagging feeling I've gone through this process before and had the source corroborated, but I can't find a record of any discussion on it. So I've removed it. If anyone can find a source, let me know, because I do like the name. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 17:59, 6 October 2012 (GMT)

Revamp[edit]

Revamp here. Very long, much change, u read long time. If boo-boo, u rite me here or fix urself. k, bye. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 07:03, 13 March 2013 (GMT)

Went ahead and posted it. Peer review is welcome.
There are many hints throughout the sources that, taken together, suggest that Nerevar ordered Dagoth Ur to "betray" him by going to the Nords, that he tricked the outlanders into attacking Dumac's citadel first so that the Nordic forces could soften the Dwemer defenses and leave them in disarray when the Chimer forces arrived. I think this was part of the "maneuverings" and "contrivances" that Nerevar employed to win the battle. It would also explain why the Nords suffered such heavy losses, and why they perceived that they had been ambushed by united Chimer-Dwemer forces. Dagoth Ur's message laments how he had sacrificed his honor to serve Nerevar; leading the Nords into this trap could be all or part of what he is referring to. I'm pretty sure this was the case, but, you know, original research, blah blah blah. But I tried to emphasize certain facts so the reader could easily come to this conclusion. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 21:44, 13 March 2013 (GMT)

Outlanders account[edit]

I think we should include more on why we Shor and Wulfrath marched on red mountain and the significance of Shor/Wulfrath reuniting with their heart only to have it removed again. I think it would also be nice to include in the Khajjit story that they did not stop to eat moon sugar, giving more credibility to the idea there was a dragon break. If the Khajiit were not at red mountain and had continued eating moon sugar as usual, they would have noticed the dragon break and have a more clear account on what happened that day.Woodhouse (talk) 14:06, 1 January 2014 (GMT)Woodhouse

See here, rest of universe. While I tend to agree with your underlying assumption about moon sugar personally, I don't think the wiki can treat it as fact. To my knowledge, the only source which suggests that moon sugar is involved with some Khajiiti ability to resist a Dragon Break is Where Were You When the Dragon Broke?, specifically:
"While you were fighting wars with phantoms and giving birth to your own fathers, it was the Mane that watched the ja-Kha'jay, because the moons were the only constant, and you didn't have the sugar to see it."
According to some lore sources, moon sugar use in Elsweyr is like cigarettes in 1950s America, even though sugar is commonly disfavored in other TES cultures. The phrase "you didn't have the sugar to see it" could be a common one referring to this cultural distinction. The sentence could be read to mean "The moons remained constant, we Khajiiti are especially attuned to them, so we know how much time passed, you stupid apes and lizards." Not saying I agree, but since it's the only source, I don't think the inference is strong enough for us to go building it up as TES fact.
There's always a question of relevance. If we're going to go into any further detail about the (highly likely) possibility that a Dragon Break occurred, it seems to me that it would be more relevant at Lore:Dragon Break than here. This page is just about the facts, for the most part, and the Dragon Break page is already a playground of speculation. Further, the final sentence of it is tailor-made to expand upon this topic. Literally, I revised it a year ago with this eventuality in mind. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 03:17, 2 January 2014 (GMT)