Lore talk:Barenziah

The UESPWiki – Your source for The Elder Scrolls since 1995
Jump to: navigation, search


I was under the impression that Barenziah was born In mornhold and was Queen of same.

Lore:The Real Barenziah, Part I In Symmachus' thirtieth year there was great rejoicing in Mournhold for a girl child was born to their lord and his lady. A queen, the people sang, a queen is born to us! For among the people of Mournhold, the birth of a female heir is a sure sign of peace and prosperity to come.

The article says she was born in Morrowind, so I don't see the problem. And she was queen of Wayrest... just play Daggerfall. –Elliot talk 07:07, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
She was born to the Lord and Lady of mournhold. She was just called queen by the masses. Before Tiber Septim's invasion there was no kings or queen in morrowind ecept for the Tribunal and the Leaders of the great houses themselves. Tiber septims plan was to change that. Appointing a sole ruler to spread imperial unfluence, and young Barenziah was the was the prime choice. Young enough to be turned to the imperial ways, yet dunmer in favor of her own kinsmen.--The Hlaalu (talk) 23:58, 12 January 2016 (UTC)


Is it definite that Karliah is her daughter? If so isnt it worth adding to the bio?

Is there a book citing this information before you add it? --Kiz ·•· Talk ·•· Contribs ·•· Mail ·•· 18:03, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Nightingales_Vol._2 link to the book its confirmed in.

Read it again - she's her granddaughter, not daughter. In any case, I've added the information to Karliah's page


The age of this character needs to be addressed in the article. An affair with Tiber Septim, but still being alive 400 years later? She basically spans the entire 3rd era, so if we can't explain how this is possible with references, at least it's worth mentioning. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 00:33 on December 31, 2011

When reading The Real Barenziah, Volume 2, one will find that Katisha mentions, in thought, the 1,000 year lifespans the gods granted the elves.--Kalis AgeaYes? Contrib E-mail 00:36, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Still Alive?[edit]

Is there any news of her status in Skyrim?

If not, do we have a death date, I would be interested. Karliah is her granddaughter and appears quite young, so I would assume she is alive, and what of her son? Helseth? How is he at the time of Skyrim? Emzi43 20:16, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

I have been wondering this too, but I have speculation that Helseth is probably not old enough to have died of age, seeing as how Barenziah was still kickin' it at 330ish years old in Tribunal. Helseth made lots of enemies as king, but he was also very clever, so it's just as likely he was assassinated, as it is likely that he is still alive. Barenziah I'm really not sure, I wish the Biography was expanded, but it hasn't been expanded on since Daggerfall ;) I would say it's not impossible, but wouldn't be suprising if she was dead. --Yal 12:07, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Lots of expansion to article[edit]

Just added a big chunk of information after reading both Barenziah series in Morrowind. Also just finished Tribunal main quest ;) I have played both Daggerfall and Arena so hopefully was able to touch base a little on that. I corrected a lot as well. PLEASE feel free to cut, as I know it's pretty long. I thought most of what I wrote was pretty important but maybe a clever English major can fix my writing up. Also I added references! Anyway I'm pretty sure I was dead-on, but if you see mistakes I made please let me know. --Yal 12:14, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

How Llethan got his throne[edit]

Would be great to get some clarification on how Barenziah made Llethan King at Mournhold...I just left that as-is when I was expanding on the article. Does anybody know exactly how it happened, or have references that say so? --Yal 12:15, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere (this site I think) that she abdicated during the First Arnesian War, and left the Throne to Llethan. If you are looking for a quote, try "The Real Barenziah" or "Biography of Barenziah". — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 21:46 on 7 August 2012
The only two real sources on the matter are stated above, so it is either in there, or unknowable at this time. Jeancey (talk) 22:16, 10 November 2013 (GMT)
She was in the Imperial city when a revolt struck Mournhold due to the increased taxes thanks to Jagar Tharn. Her husband, Symmachus was killed and she left for Wayrest, fearing for her life. Llethan was ppointed king, whom was of house Hlaalu, and presumably liked by the masses and made them a promise to lower the taxes or some such thing. He being the uncle of Barenziah made his claim legitimate.--The Hlaalu (talk) 00:06, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Nightingale/Jagar Tharn[edit]

From what I read in Nightingale 1 and 2, Jagar Tharn wasn't really there, and that he had an accomplice who was the real Nightingale. (The Crispy Cheetah 00:46, 28 May 2012 (UTC))

Karliah relationship[edit]

Can I just ask, how exactly is Karliah related to Barenziah?? I know she was seduced etc. but according to the Real Barenziah as soon as Nightingale vanished Symmachus not long after took Barenziah to bed and got her pregnant with Helseth? or am i missing something? — Unsigned comment by Moraelyn (talkcontribs) at 16:58 on 11 December 2013

Karliah relationship... Sorry didnt mean to jump on someone elses post — Unsigned comment by Moraelyn (talkcontribs) at 16:59 on 11 December 2013
Granddaughter. See here. Minor EditsThreatsEvidence 17:30, 11 December 2013 (GMT)

Queen Barenziah (moved from Skyrim talk:Fort Greymoor)[edit]

Did Queen Barenziah grew up here? Is Fort Greymoor actually the ruins of Castle Darkmoor? — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 13:35 on 14 May 2014 (GMT)

It would appear so. Fort Greymoor is in the same location as Black Moor was in Arena. BrakesBrakesBrakes (talk) 13:28, 13 July 2014 (GMT)
I'm not a lore expert, but this strikes me as a bit conjectural. It is interesting that the CK references to Fort Blackmoor exist, but no reference is made to Fort Greymoor in any of the games other than Skyrim, and for all we know there could have been another fort with a similar name that doesn't actually appear in the game. I'd like a second opinion on this from a lore expert, but this strikes me as original research. Zul se onikaanLaan tinvaak 14:31, 13 July 2014 (GMT)
Presumably the estate was converted to a fort during one of the many crisises Tamriel had to go through during the third era. Even if it still was Darkmoor when the Oblivion crisis struck we can all presume that this changed soon after.--The Hlaalu (talk) 00:09, 13 January 2016 (UTC)


I may have missed important details in the biographies. I was doing my best to summarize, and wasn't always sure where to draw the line on relevance.

We could add some images on tangential topics, like Helseth or Karliah? But there's just no way to get around having a wall of text regardless.

The sections on the biographies are basically relying on their respective biographies unless referenced otherwise; I hope people are okay with the arrangement. Citing just seemed a bit redundant in this circumstance.

Any problems with the unreferenced wording at the end or elsewhere? Or with the notes, like about the one about Rude Song? Or section headers? Or something I missed entirely?

"Hlaalu" doesn't appear once on the page; it might be worth mentioning in the intro. It's not a big assumption to make; all common sense says she was Hlaalu, it was just never made explicit afaik (although the OOG says she's in the Ra'athim clan, which was part of House Hlaalu).

I've seen people take stabs at deducing her full name based on Dunmer convention, like Hlaalu Ra'athim Barenziah or something, but Dunmer naming is admittedly inconsistent.

Obviously, given the red link, I plan to make a page for Darkmoor. I plan to title it "Lore:Greymoor", since Fort Greymoor is the name used by Skyrim, with redirects from the other names. Any thoughts or concerns about this, please let me know. Or just edit mercilessly. Insignificant RevisionsThreatsEvidence 22:54, 26 April 2015 (GMT)

Haven't read the page yet, but I think House Hlaalu is a fair assumption to make given the Ra'athim thing and the name of her son. As for Darkmoor, I've made quite a few place articles relating to Skyrim forts (e.g. Lore:Greenwall) if you're looking for a template. —Legoless (talk) 01:33, 27 April 2015 (GMT)