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Buoyant Armigers
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Author:  Secret Magic User [ Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:17 am ]
Post subject:  Buoyant Armigers
Should this faction have been joinable. The preset class has skill ties with Hlaalu, Thieves Guild, and Morag Tong, so would it have been stale? Or do you think that the versatility in terms of role play would have been worth it?
Traditionally, Redoran has a lot of ties, including membership, due to similar values and beliefs, however the skill sets don't match up except for Athletics so would it have been too hard to reconcile the faction politically with the class/role's methods and tactics?

What are y'alls' thoughts?
Author:  OblivionDuruza [ Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Buoyant Armigers
Definitely. I've always enjoyed the relative diversity Morrowind's factions offer to the game, and the depth that this adds, as a mechanic, to the game world itself. That said, there have always been a few areas in which I could envisage this being pushed further with Morrowind, primarily by allowing players to join the Armigers, as a native Fighters Guild substitute, as you suggest, and also even by making the Ordinators joinable as a Legion alternative, the Camonna Tong as a Thieves Guild alternative, and the Dark Brotherhood as an Imperial substitute to the Morag Tong.

It's that contrast and conflict between Empire and Dunmer that Morrowind captures which makes Vvardenfell so interesting. The Imperial Cult and Tribunal Temple set a strong and engaging precedent for this, and the lore (and common sense) provide further detail about how the Dunmer themselves would have done things before the Empire became a presence in Morrowind. Certainly, that would emphasises the multifaceted relationship between the peoples of Morrowind and the Empire, as well as highlighting the competition between old and new forces in Morrowind during the late third era that we see in-game.

Those added factions, and the remaining two Great Houses, as well as the mainland of the province, and you would quite possibly have more than my dream Elder Scrolls game. I'm almost surprised nobody's modded them in as a faction yet. The Factions Expanded Project might be one worth hoping someone will complete. seems fairly interesting. Although I haven't heard anything out of the project in years there might still be some hope that the TR people will pick it up after they finish the mainland (fingers crossed).

Edit: fixed a missing link
Author:  scribbane [ Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Buoyant Armigers
I'm actually doing a Temple play through now and this got me thinking. I do believe that would have been a cool faction to join, but I wouldn't have wanted it to be separate necessarily from the Temple. Rather, I think that it could have been a specialization in the guild itself. After all, they are a military order of the Temple if I'm not mistaken. I think if you followed a certain path or questline, you should have been able to join the Buoyant Armigers or the Ordinators, but not both and it would have prevented you from rising more in the main Temple itself. Same thing with something like the Imperial Cult. If I recall correctly, the IC tells you when you start that there are something like 4 different types of duties or roles you can play. I think it would have made it more interesting to choose a specialization and go that route, but again it would have locked you out of the other paths.

When I think of the Tribunal Temple, I think of a very priestly character, someone who very rarely enters combat. But with the BA or the Ordinators, we could get a much more militant character build that allows for more specific role-playing. Recovering artifacts, eliminating necromancers and vampires, wiping out cults and such are more combat focused quests, but ones that would have fit well with the BA.
Author:  Secret Magic User [ Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Buoyant Armigers
@OD
You know, I always pictured the Armigers as a mirror of the Imperial Legion, and the Ordinators of the Imperial Guard. However, I definitely think I like your take on it more, as guard duty in general would and does fall under the sanction of the Houses (except in Temple districts) and the Ordinators are really quite more focused, albeit understandably, on matters that concern the Temple as opposed to matters that concern the law.

I personally would have loved for this to have been an in-game faction and I think, as you do, that it would have better fleshed out the dichotomy and cultural clash. I also just find the whole Tribunal Temple and it's own many facets so very engrossing. I too am disappointed that they haven't been modded yet, because it's such a rich resource pool to draw from. And, a game with all of those factions and included lands would indeed be probably the best ES game ever. I would love to walk the streets of Necrom and see the graveyard where Phlaxith lost his life and the inn where Massitha stole the reward of gold from the other two party members.

@scribbane (awesome name, by the way)
Your idea about the split faction specialization is a really interesting one. I like the idea particularly because it still allows one to serve the Temple, but in your own way, as opposed to being forced into certain set of skills. I believe that adds a serious level of immersion that is 100% awesome. It also still serves to represent the difference between the Dunmeri and Imperial cultures by tying Legion and Fighter's Guild mirrors in with the Temple (which is so very integral to Morrowind as a nation), where as the Imperial equivalents all operate independent of one another.

However, being limited to just one branch makes me frown unconsciously, because I'd personally want to run all three, or at the very least Temple+One Other and play a kind of Apothecary (from Warhammer 40k, Space Marines) role. Also, I think it's not illogical to think that could be plausible. I could, however, just be getting greedy.
Author:  OblivionDuruza [ Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Buoyant Armigers
Author:  Demiverse [ Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Buoyant Armigers
We're touching on one of those rare areas where Morrowind could have actually been improved. As it is the game was a colossal effort - groundbreaking, in its time. So I do feel some trepidation, if only out of respect, when engaging in "what if" scenarios. Nonetheless, these are all ideas I've entertained quite a bit.

I agree with the notion of making the Armigers & Ordinators exclusive joinable sub-factions that become available when you reach a certain rank within the Temple. Though they certainly shouldn't be required to become Patriarch. They should be separate factions, but with unique requirements. Even something similar to the Sanguine Artifacts sidequests of the Morag Tong - a few radiant quests to "clear X vampire den" or "escort X pilgrim" - I'd be happy with that. But they oughtn't be House-dependent. The Ordinators might have +2 faction disposition to House Indoril, +1 to Redoran, and vise versa for the Armigers. Something like that.

Beyond the Temple, I'm all for making as many factions joinable as possible. Dark Brotherhood, Camonna Tong...even the Sixth House. Imagine if it had been possible to join House Dagoth and pursue an alternative outcome to the MQ. Honestly, the lore is so well written that even those groups we know almost nothing about manage to capture the imagination and leave us wanting to know more about their particular story. So I don't feel there would be much risk of repetitiousness or redundancy in tacking on more combat, magic, or stealth-oriented questlines. There are many possibilities that could further enrich an already complex and multifaceted game.

I also would have liked to see increased exclusivity among individual factions. I never felt the desire to become the head of every possible guild and faction with one character - it doesn't make sense any way you slice it. IMO, locking the player out of particular questlines based on their decisions is actually an important element in an RPG. It would have encouraged the player to take advantage of the robust character creation system, and experience the game from a completely different angle each time. Ultimately, it's a question of ideology - player freedom vs. continuity.

To play devil's advocate for a moment, I'd say that it's almost a positive that many factions remained un-joinable. The fact that we have so little knowledge about Indoril and Dres, for instance, only adds to their mystique and keeps us engaged and curious enough so as to spark this sort of speculation even more than a decade after the game's release.
Author:  Secret Magic User [ Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Buoyant Armigers
Author:  Demiverse [ Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Buoyant Armigers
Author:  Secret Magic User [ Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Buoyant Armigers
Author:  Demiverse [ Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Buoyant Armigers
Author:  Secret Magic User [ Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Buoyant Armigers
Unfortunately, I have the Steam version which did not come with a CK, and my old discs seem to have joined the Dwemer, or else I would definitely start working on this.
Author:  Demiverse [ Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Buoyant Armigers
I haven't had my old discs since the disappearance of the Dwemer. Which was apparently about 10 years ago. I need to pick up a hard copy again one of these days.
Author:  CharlesthePlant [ Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Buoyant Armigers
Author:  Secret Magic User [ Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Buoyant Armigers
Would it stand to reason that there would be a few Buoyant Armigers at every Temple to in order to facilitate easier communication and deeper understanding between Vivec's holy warriors and his people? Or would it be easier to say that they were kept fairly centrally located, to be dispatched at someone's discretion?



I look forward to seeing everyone's thoughts!
Author:  Greenlantern [ Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Buoyant Armigers
Those are interesting ideas. Game-wise, it seems like they are only located in the Ghostgate, as that is the only place (that I can recall,) that they are found. So if you look at the game, it seems to say that your second idea is correct. But, then again, maybe there are a few BA's around Vvardenfell that I don't remember seeing.

I do like the first idea though. I may add some BA's to my game, via the CS.
Author:  Demiverse [ Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Buoyant Armigers
Author:  OblivionDuruza [ Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Buoyant Armigers
On the point about BAs in the Temple, I think it is important to note that the Armigers are essentially the personal warriors of Vivec. Therefore, while they might personally also be members of the Temple, I would expect that they answer to Vivec rather than the Temple hierarchy, and be hand-selected by Vivec rather than Temple bureaucrats.

In that respect, I would see their relationship with the Temple as one in which the Temple almost scramble to facilitate the satisfaction of their needs, while the Armigers generally adopt a benevolent attitude towards the Temple. Where that could get interesting is when an Armiger abuses the power relationship the order has over the Temple - something that could become an interesting sub-plot.
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