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Dwemer/Ideal Masters Lore Theory
http://en.uesp.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=41510		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Jorum [ Mon Jul 03, 2023 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Dwemer/Ideal Masters Lore Theory
‼️SPOILER ALERT‼️

Theory:

I have reason to believe that the Dwemer Race are the infamous Ideal Masters. There are many points leading to this conclusion, so I’ll keep them short and simple with list form.

Reasoning:

• The Dwemer Race disappeared without a trace as to where they’ve gone. This compliments lore that the Ideal Masters were once mortal beings who created, and transcended into, the Soul Cairn.

• Dwemer Ruins have torture chambers with cruel devices. This fact leans towards conjuration experiments, similar to Wuunferth the Unliving’s crazed rantings in his Butcher’s Journals; from the quest, Blood on the Ice. This point compliments the lore in which the Ideal Masters are believed to be conjuration sorcerers.

• The Dwemer Race conned the Snow Elves into slavery after promising them sanctuary. Similarly, the Ideal Masters also con their captives with white lies.

• Dwemer Animunculi often times drop Soul Gems(empty or filled) upon death. Dwemer’s central hub, Blackreach, contains Geode Veins; which also produce plenty of Soul Gems when mined. Since Soul Gems have strong connections to the Soul Cairn, it’s only right to reference this point to my theory.

• Within the Soul Cairn is a book called, The Book of Life and Service. In this book it reads, ”Blessed are the Masters, for they bridge the past and span the future.” Moth Priests say that the author of the Elderscrolls is unknown, and that each Elderscroll reading vary among every Moth Priest; presenting either the past, present, or future. Furthermore, Septimus Signus claims that the Dwemer Race have a method to decipher the Elderscrolls through machinery; hidden in their ruins. I find this method to be superior, because no Moth Priest pays the toll of reading an Elderscroll. Lastly, one could conclude that Moth Priests are giving up part of their soul when reading an Elderscroll; similar to entrance within the Soul Cairn’s portal.

With that, I conclude my theoretical argument. I hope this was as much of a brain teaser for you all as it was for me! Please let me know your thoughts, and don’t hold back!
Author:  Imbalance [ Thu Jul 06, 2023 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwemer/Ideal Masters Lore Theory
Maybe, but the Ideal Masters had been around since the Merithic Era, and the Dwemer didn't disappear until well into the 1st Era. It may be possible that some Dwemer were among those soul gem sorcerers that became IM's, but it isn't fitting to be the fate of the entire race.
Author:  Jorum [ Thu Jul 06, 2023 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwemer/Ideal Masters Lore Theory
According to my last point, it matters not when the Dwemers disappeared, because, evidently, time is not an obstacle for them.
Author:  SeaGtGruff [ Thu Jul 06, 2023 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwemer/Ideal Masters Lore Theory
I mean, I want to agree with your theory. But I'm undecided, mostly because I don't think I'd ever heard of these so-called "Ideal Masters" before. ('Tis true, I'm not a very good lore hound.) But despite my unfamiliarity with the Ideal Masters, your theory seems plausible enough.
Author:  Jorum [ Fri Jul 07, 2023 4:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwemer/Ideal Masters Lore Theory
They’re revealed in earlier Elderscrolls games and in the Skyrim: Dawnguard DLC. Buy it or watch gameplay through YouTube if you’re interested.
Author:  SeaGtGruff [ Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwemer/Ideal Masters Lore Theory
I don't remember them from the earlier games, but then I tended to mostly skim over the in-game books.

As for Dawnguard, I never bought that DLC for the original version of Skyrim, and I have not yet played through the Special Edition that includes all of the DLCs.

But it sounds like as good a theory as any.

However, since Todd Howard wants the mystery of the Dwemer to remain a mystery, it seems that we'll never know for sure which theory about them is correct.
Author:  BetaB17 [ Sat Jul 08, 2023 1:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwemer/Ideal Masters Lore Theory
I reckon given the long history of necromancy and dark art practitioners, the fact the Ideal Masters became a thing is none so surprising. Odds are they are just some forgotten sect that managed to carve away a piece of oblivion and mastery over souls. They aren't necessarily special in that endeavor, look at Mannimarco and the Dark Moon.

Also more towards the Dwemer. Being cruel and making use of torture is not unique amongst the elves. The Ayleids being arguably more befitting of this. Also take note the Dwemer had a distinct disregard for any gods and preferred to master the world themselves. It wouldn't make sense for them to want to carve out a piece of oblivion and trade in souls, when more likely they saw things simpler, that souls can be used as a power source for their contraptions.
Author:  Lord Timster [ Sat Jul 08, 2023 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwemer/Ideal Masters Lore Theory
After pondering this for a while I think I will have to go with 'Disagree' regarding 'Ideal Masters = Dwemer'. The two just have a completely different vibe to me.

However, I think the idea that there might be a connection between the two is interesting. There are a number of reasons why the Dwemer might have wanted to investigate, if not communicate with, the Ideal Masters.

- The IMs were mortals who had 'developed/evolved/ascended' to a state of possible immortality through their own skills/knowledge.
- The IMs had created their own 'Realm' in Oblivion, demonstrating that a previously-mortal race could replicate (or rival!) Daedra-level powers.
- The IMs would presumably have deep knowledge of how Soul Gems (which can be mined deep underground) work - useful for improving enchantments and integration with machinery.

All things that might pique Dwemer interest.

Or, for that matter, maybe the Ideal Masters can alter how Soul Gems would react to Dwemer experimentation, allowing manipulation without actual communication.

So I could imagine the Ideal Masters spending centuries (? or longer?) gradually manipulating the Dwemer with skewed concepts and information. And their end-game? Maybe Kagrenac's experiments on the Heart were fatally flawed by IM mis-information and ended with the IMs hoovering up the souls of the entire Dwemer race as new 'thralls' and/or for some other nefarious purposes... :o That would mean those Dwemer Ghosts you can bump into in Morrowind were actually IM thralls.

Maybe, maybe, maybe... Who knows?

</baseless speculation :D >
Author:  Jorum [ Sat Jul 08, 2023 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwemer/Ideal Masters Lore Theory
I like this perspective! Well put, my friend! ^-^
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