Daggerfall remake?
Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:59 pm
I'll try to keep it short and simple.
Many fans claim TESII: Daggerfall was the best in the series to date. I've had my fair share of time spent playing the game, and I can see why.
The only issue is that to play it on a modern computer, it is required to run it through a DOS emulator, given the game is dated. This can be a slight hassle if you don't know what you're doing, some succeed without a sweat. As for others, they sometimes give up completely when failing to run it.
With the recent release of "Duke Nukem 3D: Megaton Edition" on steam, it got me thinking...
Duke Nukem 3D was originally a DOS game along with it's console and mobile ports. The steam version comes with the original DOS version and as well, a revamped OpenGL version.
With my knowledge, it is possible to convert DOS games onto OpenGL, therefore making it easy as download, install, and play on modern computers.
What if this can be done with Daggerfall? Imagine it being Re-released on Steam!
Putting the freeware aside, I'd certainly pay $5-$15 dollars, even $30 for such a product.
The only concern is... Would Bethesda put the effort and make such a project possible?
We could even see an IOS/Android port!
Again, this is merely dreaming. Only the nine would know if such a thing is possible.
What are you're thoughts?
Many fans claim TESII: Daggerfall was the best in the series to date. I've had my fair share of time spent playing the game, and I can see why.
The only issue is that to play it on a modern computer, it is required to run it through a DOS emulator, given the game is dated. This can be a slight hassle if you don't know what you're doing, some succeed without a sweat. As for others, they sometimes give up completely when failing to run it.
With the recent release of "Duke Nukem 3D: Megaton Edition" on steam, it got me thinking...
Duke Nukem 3D was originally a DOS game along with it's console and mobile ports. The steam version comes with the original DOS version and as well, a revamped OpenGL version.
With my knowledge, it is possible to convert DOS games onto OpenGL, therefore making it easy as download, install, and play on modern computers.
What if this can be done with Daggerfall? Imagine it being Re-released on Steam!
Putting the freeware aside, I'd certainly pay $5-$15 dollars, even $30 for such a product.
The only concern is... Would Bethesda put the effort and make such a project possible?
We could even see an IOS/Android port!
Again, this is merely dreaming. Only the nine would know if such a thing is possible.
What are you're thoughts?
Re: Daggerfall remake?
Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:02 am
Note- I'm aware of the DaggerXL project, and am anticipating for a full-release. My thoughts are what if it was done by Bethesda, then rather a 3rd party, and released on Steam? I'd love such a game to be in my library.
Re: Daggerfall remake?
Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:38 am
My thoughts: Might want to get in line behind System Shock 2 and the millions of requests for a remastered version of System Shock 2.
What I mean by that is, this kind of stuff is suggested for many old games. It's a moot point to suggest this because chances are, someone already has suggested it. The biggest problem is that development moves forward, and publishers won't accept a remaster without change in mechanics, content, etc.
Allow me to give you an example: Let's say Bethesda Softworks actually finds a way to profit off of remastering Daggerfall for modern OSes and machines. They put in the money to develop it for Windows XP, Windows 7, Windows Vista, and Windows 8. They also put in the money to support DirectX, OpenGL, SDL, and other graphics renderers. Then they also ensure compatibility between all the ranges of video and sound cards for a game that was so old. All of this would require a lot of re-writing, not to mention they would have to go on a BIG bug hunt in Daggerfall, as there are tons of them. They also can't just leave the graphical art as it is, the billboard-styled objects and a few jagged 3D objects. They have to modernize it, or the remake would not attract a good following due to the pixels (believe it or not, yes, this becomes a problem, and I had to play Daggerfall for a bit to get used to it as I am today). Modernization would become a problem with nostalgia trippers, so that would become a Modern v.s. Retro development decision. Then, the main quests and such weren't as in-depth as they had come to expect from Skyrim and its voice acting. Music might escape unscathed because Daggerfall's pretty well off with it. Daggerfall is well known to be unforgiving to beginners, and a lot of its difficulty, odd mechanics, and many other things are its charm. If you left that in, it'd scare off other consumers who would like to try playing the game, because, I mean, first dungeon, anyone? If they tweaked the mechanics and changed things, then you have the OTHER side of the flip coin turned off. Not only that, but then you would have "killed" the memory of a great game, by trying to revamp it and changing such things, which many developers have ended up doing. It's way too risky, I'd be baffled if Bethesda took a chance like that... besides, they tend to move forward, so I don't think they want to go back on this.
There are so many more variables and things that would need to be changed, it'd be quite a large investment just to please fans of Daggerfall (and that's quite a minority compared to the more modern Elder Scrolls following of today). By all means, I would LOVE if they would do this, but chances are even if they DID want to make such an investment, and I HIGHLY doubt they would want to, they would have to modernize it, or be forced by their publisher to modernize it. If it were modernized and things changed as such, I would not want to play it. We wouldn't even get to that part though, they wouldn't do it.
Threads and ideas regarding the original inventor company of certain old games remaking them, have been shot around many times. I am hoping this will be a definitive answer to almost any such request for other old games as well. No sane company of this generation would consider doing it, it would be a huge investment with little return to do such. The best you can hope for is that DaggerXL will be able to run Daggerfall's content fluidly and to the letter, and that it will allow 3D objects, sprites, quests, enemies, scripts, levels, and much more content to be made, so that Daggerfall will live on through an engine that will hopefully last other Operating Systems.
To close, I'm sure you meant just by doing a simple port to something like, say, DirectX or OpenGL. I just wanted to let you know that most companies are not going to keep it that simple. ZeniMax Inc wouldn't just let a remake occur without having Bethesda revamp things, it's a business practice to improve and innovate, even if it's unwanted innovation that hurts more than helps. Duke Nukem is relatively easy to keep the same, because it's difficult to mess up something that was about shooting aliens, satiring the role of the American hero back in the 1900s, and a couple of level puzzles and cheesy one-liners. (Yes, yes, Duke Nukem is everyone's favorite, his cheesy one-liners are truly amazing, yadda yadda.) With Daggerfall, there's far too many variables that create its charm. Its open nature, its mechanics of so many choices, character building... the open nature... it's quite difficult to explain. Daggerfall is too open-ended with how it was made, much like many Bethesda games. One does not simply just port such a game in a different graphics engine, because it was made quite specifically, and much would have to be changed around... or it might just not work at all if you try a simple port.
Just thought to put some insight in to it. Did this post in one go, I apologize if it sounds like I'm trying to shoot down your idea. I'm not, I sure wish they would do this, but I wanted to give you a realistic perspective on how a company might think of this, and... sadly, Bethesda DOES AND WILL think in this manner, and if not them, their publisher ZeniMax would. They move forward, just like the rest of the gaming industry... for better or worse. Just take comfort in the fact that Bethesda looks back on its successes and mistakes, and does its best to improve for their next projects based on previous failures and successes. You can't say that for all gaming companies, Beth seems to do it the best... besides for their bug testing department (but the bugs are the best part of their games! Haha... when they don't cause crashes.)
What I mean by that is, this kind of stuff is suggested for many old games. It's a moot point to suggest this because chances are, someone already has suggested it. The biggest problem is that development moves forward, and publishers won't accept a remaster without change in mechanics, content, etc.
Allow me to give you an example: Let's say Bethesda Softworks actually finds a way to profit off of remastering Daggerfall for modern OSes and machines. They put in the money to develop it for Windows XP, Windows 7, Windows Vista, and Windows 8. They also put in the money to support DirectX, OpenGL, SDL, and other graphics renderers. Then they also ensure compatibility between all the ranges of video and sound cards for a game that was so old. All of this would require a lot of re-writing, not to mention they would have to go on a BIG bug hunt in Daggerfall, as there are tons of them. They also can't just leave the graphical art as it is, the billboard-styled objects and a few jagged 3D objects. They have to modernize it, or the remake would not attract a good following due to the pixels (believe it or not, yes, this becomes a problem, and I had to play Daggerfall for a bit to get used to it as I am today). Modernization would become a problem with nostalgia trippers, so that would become a Modern v.s. Retro development decision. Then, the main quests and such weren't as in-depth as they had come to expect from Skyrim and its voice acting. Music might escape unscathed because Daggerfall's pretty well off with it. Daggerfall is well known to be unforgiving to beginners, and a lot of its difficulty, odd mechanics, and many other things are its charm. If you left that in, it'd scare off other consumers who would like to try playing the game, because, I mean, first dungeon, anyone? If they tweaked the mechanics and changed things, then you have the OTHER side of the flip coin turned off. Not only that, but then you would have "killed" the memory of a great game, by trying to revamp it and changing such things, which many developers have ended up doing. It's way too risky, I'd be baffled if Bethesda took a chance like that... besides, they tend to move forward, so I don't think they want to go back on this.
There are so many more variables and things that would need to be changed, it'd be quite a large investment just to please fans of Daggerfall (and that's quite a minority compared to the more modern Elder Scrolls following of today). By all means, I would LOVE if they would do this, but chances are even if they DID want to make such an investment, and I HIGHLY doubt they would want to, they would have to modernize it, or be forced by their publisher to modernize it. If it were modernized and things changed as such, I would not want to play it. We wouldn't even get to that part though, they wouldn't do it.
Threads and ideas regarding the original inventor company of certain old games remaking them, have been shot around many times. I am hoping this will be a definitive answer to almost any such request for other old games as well. No sane company of this generation would consider doing it, it would be a huge investment with little return to do such. The best you can hope for is that DaggerXL will be able to run Daggerfall's content fluidly and to the letter, and that it will allow 3D objects, sprites, quests, enemies, scripts, levels, and much more content to be made, so that Daggerfall will live on through an engine that will hopefully last other Operating Systems.
To close, I'm sure you meant just by doing a simple port to something like, say, DirectX or OpenGL. I just wanted to let you know that most companies are not going to keep it that simple. ZeniMax Inc wouldn't just let a remake occur without having Bethesda revamp things, it's a business practice to improve and innovate, even if it's unwanted innovation that hurts more than helps. Duke Nukem is relatively easy to keep the same, because it's difficult to mess up something that was about shooting aliens, satiring the role of the American hero back in the 1900s, and a couple of level puzzles and cheesy one-liners. (Yes, yes, Duke Nukem is everyone's favorite, his cheesy one-liners are truly amazing, yadda yadda.) With Daggerfall, there's far too many variables that create its charm. Its open nature, its mechanics of so many choices, character building... the open nature... it's quite difficult to explain. Daggerfall is too open-ended with how it was made, much like many Bethesda games. One does not simply just port such a game in a different graphics engine, because it was made quite specifically, and much would have to be changed around... or it might just not work at all if you try a simple port.
Just thought to put some insight in to it. Did this post in one go, I apologize if it sounds like I'm trying to shoot down your idea. I'm not, I sure wish they would do this, but I wanted to give you a realistic perspective on how a company might think of this, and... sadly, Bethesda DOES AND WILL think in this manner, and if not them, their publisher ZeniMax would. They move forward, just like the rest of the gaming industry... for better or worse. Just take comfort in the fact that Bethesda looks back on its successes and mistakes, and does its best to improve for their next projects based on previous failures and successes. You can't say that for all gaming companies, Beth seems to do it the best... besides for their bug testing department (but the bugs are the best part of their games! Haha... when they don't cause crashes.)
Re: Daggerfall remake?
Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:09 pm
I did look at it from a realistic perspective, and I have to say (@Nightcap) I appreciate you're post, and absolutely agree on all counts.
I've already thought of those cases, where if they would have to modernize it, change it, and somehow adjust and improve thing's to make a remake more appealing to modern consumer's, prior to your post. I've had past thoughts, and I did think they would have to consider some change. But It seems I just got carried away with the Idea, and I considered some things.
Duke Nukem, was a masterpiece by itself, and I agree, those one-liners are indeed glorious. But with a simple port, and a few bug-resolving day's, they successfully ported the DOS title to OpenGL and published it on steam with a price tag of $10.
Given several thousand copies we're sold in the first week, I'd say with the effort put in, they indeed got a decent profit. And they have many pleased fan's on their fanbase so props to them. And take in mind, the game was fairly successful without any changes, no adjustments to gameplay, visuals, mechanics, etc. The Megaton Edition is as perfect as the original, with the benefit of being able to run on a modern OS.
You are correct in another case as well, I wasn't considering a complete remake, something of the sort that has been done with Half-Life and Black Mesa:Source (Despite being a 3rd party) I was more interested in a simple port, something that was done with the most recent Duke Nukem 3D:Megaton Edition. This way the game can remain with what made Daggerfall amazing, and the slightest change in my opinion, can indeed ruin the experience. Just a simple port, retaining everything what made the game what it is, just overall OS support is what I'm looking for.
While this idea is a great one, and I mean... What Daggerfall fan wouldn't want a remake!? It is, in a realistic perspective, far fetched. it's most likely to never happen but it's not impossible.
Given under the circumstances that Zenimax doesn't force adjustments, and Bethesda does decide to spend the time to Re-Code and test the game for new bugs and go through with the publishing, I think it can happen. But the chances are very slim.
I'd like to bring another example to the table... FF7.
It was released on PC (Which obviously, the PC consumer's for such a game is a minority when compared to the amount of copies sold in it's console version) We're talking a game that sold millions on the PlayStation... But only a dozen thousand on pc. By the time Vista was released, FF7 no longer was able to run, meaning you had to have XP or below to run it, with a project that was almost already dead, Square Enix reached out to the few fan's on the PC version, and Re-released it with support for Windows 7 and Vista! This almost seems like a miracle, given to the lack of consumers for the PC port.
Now think of a game such as Elder Scrolls. Daggerfall has a much larger fan base, and many more fan's asking for a port to modern OS's. If it was possible and done with FF7, couldn't the same be done with Daggerfall? Just like Duke Nukem and FF7, No adjustments we're made. Only merely OS support. While FF7's efforts barely went in vain, with miniscule copies sold, and Duke Nukem did recieve some profit, these ports we're done to satisfy fan's.
While in the end, it all comes to Bethesda to decide, I believe it can happen. The chances are slim, but it's possible. That's my opinion.
Here's to hoping we can see the light of day to such a product!
I've already thought of those cases, where if they would have to modernize it, change it, and somehow adjust and improve thing's to make a remake more appealing to modern consumer's, prior to your post. I've had past thoughts, and I did think they would have to consider some change. But It seems I just got carried away with the Idea, and I considered some things.
Duke Nukem, was a masterpiece by itself, and I agree, those one-liners are indeed glorious. But with a simple port, and a few bug-resolving day's, they successfully ported the DOS title to OpenGL and published it on steam with a price tag of $10.
Given several thousand copies we're sold in the first week, I'd say with the effort put in, they indeed got a decent profit. And they have many pleased fan's on their fanbase so props to them. And take in mind, the game was fairly successful without any changes, no adjustments to gameplay, visuals, mechanics, etc. The Megaton Edition is as perfect as the original, with the benefit of being able to run on a modern OS.
You are correct in another case as well, I wasn't considering a complete remake, something of the sort that has been done with Half-Life and Black Mesa:Source (Despite being a 3rd party) I was more interested in a simple port, something that was done with the most recent Duke Nukem 3D:Megaton Edition. This way the game can remain with what made Daggerfall amazing, and the slightest change in my opinion, can indeed ruin the experience. Just a simple port, retaining everything what made the game what it is, just overall OS support is what I'm looking for.
While this idea is a great one, and I mean... What Daggerfall fan wouldn't want a remake!? It is, in a realistic perspective, far fetched. it's most likely to never happen but it's not impossible.
Given under the circumstances that Zenimax doesn't force adjustments, and Bethesda does decide to spend the time to Re-Code and test the game for new bugs and go through with the publishing, I think it can happen. But the chances are very slim.
I'd like to bring another example to the table... FF7.
It was released on PC (Which obviously, the PC consumer's for such a game is a minority when compared to the amount of copies sold in it's console version) We're talking a game that sold millions on the PlayStation... But only a dozen thousand on pc. By the time Vista was released, FF7 no longer was able to run, meaning you had to have XP or below to run it, with a project that was almost already dead, Square Enix reached out to the few fan's on the PC version, and Re-released it with support for Windows 7 and Vista! This almost seems like a miracle, given to the lack of consumers for the PC port.
Now think of a game such as Elder Scrolls. Daggerfall has a much larger fan base, and many more fan's asking for a port to modern OS's. If it was possible and done with FF7, couldn't the same be done with Daggerfall? Just like Duke Nukem and FF7, No adjustments we're made. Only merely OS support. While FF7's efforts barely went in vain, with miniscule copies sold, and Duke Nukem did recieve some profit, these ports we're done to satisfy fan's.
While in the end, it all comes to Bethesda to decide, I believe it can happen. The chances are slim, but it's possible. That's my opinion.
Here's to hoping we can see the light of day to such a product!
Re: Daggerfall remake?
Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:34 pm
I'm not a Daggerfall fan in particular, just playing the game first time, from my plain nuetral point of view a remake (or port) makes sense only with updated graphics, even it will mean just adding low-poly models instead of spites and average textures and widescreen support, at least to the level of Counter Strike 1.6. Something that doesnt hurt your eyes. DaggerXL looks decent provided they will add 3d models and all working content. So yeah, I would totally prefer playing a remake than original if I had a choice. But I doubt I will return to Daggerfall once I beat it. Honestly, I appreciate the game keeping in mind its made in 1996, but its too repetitive IMHO.
Re: Daggerfall remake?
Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:45 am
The largest problem I see with a Daggerfall remake, is that it would have to be a near total rework of the original game, as a lot of the design philosophy of the first two TES games woudln't translate well into the modern day. The size and scale of Daggerfall, for starters, wouldn't work for either the developers or the consumers, imo, and so the game would have to be scaled back to a more Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim sort of level, which would probably seriously impact the feel of the game. Daggerfall 2.0 might not feel like Daggerfall, is all I'm saying. I'd still be interested, but for such a complete and total rework, we might as well see a new game?
Re: Daggerfall remake?
Mon May 13, 2013 5:25 pm
If the only issue is the ease of installing and running it on a modern system, then all you need is the DaggerfallSetup.exe -> http://theelderscrolls.wiwiland.net/?ti ... llSetup_EN
What's more, it comes with all the fixes, as well as additional quests and a view-distance-extending mod.
There's some easy and quick documentation on how to tweak DosBox parameters to smooth out the graphics, but it's not necessary to play the game.
What's more, it comes with all the fixes, as well as additional quests and a view-distance-extending mod.
There's some easy and quick documentation on how to tweak DosBox parameters to smooth out the graphics, but it's not necessary to play the game.
Re: Daggerfall remake?
Thu May 16, 2013 6:27 pm
A remake would be welcome for me, this seems to be a gem of the series not many have played.
Re: Daggerfall remake?
Thu May 16, 2013 10:23 pm
I downloaded the Daggerfallsetup file from this site, I am happy that it comes fully patched, fixed and dosbox setup all ready to go. Can't wait to get home and start up my next adventure! This one if I remember right will take much much longer then Arena. Oh well, the way up the tallest mountain begins with one step.