User talk:Xyzzy/archive2013

Linking past redirects

I reverted your change linking past redirects. The redirect is there on purpose to provide for a direct link to the section. In general, one should only link past a redirect if the redirect you are using is incorrect, such as a change from Skyrim:Merchant to Skyrim:Merchant (perk). The redirects provide important wikiknowledge of what is in that section of the dungeon. :) If you have any questions, let me know! Jeancey (talk) 21:43, 26 February 2013 (GMT)

The Links page states that we should be creating links with the appropriate anchor whenever possible, rather than relying on the redirect page to do it for us. --Xyzzy ^Talk 22:01, 26 February 2013 (GMT)

The section you linked doesn't say anything like that... It says that the label ON the redirect page should point to the appropriate anchor, not the page on which the redirect is actually used. Jeancey (talk) 22:12, 26 February 2013 (GMT)

"The "What Links Here" feature (lower left corner of any page) can be used to identify internal links; correcting those links to point to the new page is highly recommended." is the sentence I was referring to. If it is "highly recommended" to change links that were created BEFORE the redirect page was created, doesn't it stand to reason that links created AFTER the redirect page was created should do the same? --Xyzzy ^Talk 22:20, 26 February 2013 (GMT)

The two lines preceding that one were Every time a page is moved, the original page name is turned into a redirect to the new page name. This ensures that any existing links to the page were not broken by the page move. It is highly recommended to change the links when moving a page. These redirects have nothing to do with page moves, they are there specifically so you can link to the specific subsection of a page. Jeancey (talk) 22:26, 26 February 2013 (GMT)

Maybe you are misunderstanding what my change did. Your method and my method both link to the specific section of the article. Yours just relies on the redirect page to accomplish this. My interpretation of the Help:Links page sentence is that we should create links that point directly to the pertinent article section without relying on a redirect page. This is so that if the redirect page were to be deleted for any reason, it would not result in broken links. --Xyzzy ^Talk 22:38, 26 February 2013 (GMT)

That is accurate, but ONLY if the redirect was created as the result of a page move. None of the ones you changed were created by moving a page, they were created specifically to link to those sections. All that section of the Help page is saying is that when you move a page, update the links to that page. That's it. We should not be changing things from redirects if the redirects are there on purpose, and not because of a page move. Jeancey (talk) 22:47, 26 February 2013 (GMT)

(←) Doing so excessively would hurt. Doing so to a couple of pages shouldn't matter. If we changed it all, we'd need a bot. If it's just a couple of links, it really doesn't matter how you use it. It's like underscores or namespaces: You can type [[SR:Dark Brotherhood]], [[SR:Dark_Brotherhood]], [[Skyrim:Dark Brotherhood]], or [[Skyrim:Dark_Brotherhood]], and you'll still get the exact same link. Sure, redirects are a little different, but it's not like we've got any problems with them right now. Vely^►t►e 23:15, 26 February 2013 (GMT)

Ok. If I'm reading you correctly, Vely, then linking past redirects excessively would cause issues. If that's the case, then undoing my edit makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. --Xyzzy ^Talk 23:26, 26 February 2013 (GMT)

What I meant by my first sentence wasn't quite that it would hurt, sorry. I mean that changing all the redirects would be a massive thing to do, I think. Not to mention that it might be annoying to do so with everything, like Lore:Skeever. My point is that it shouldn't really matter how it's typed, because redirects are there for that reason, so making an edit just to link past it isn't very constructive. A bunch of nonconstructive edits would be a pain. A couple small edits that include changing the redirects don't need to be reverted. Vely^►t►e 23:36, 26 February 2013 (GMT)

Ok. I understand. I've seen other editors link past redirects, and it seemed like a good idea to me, so I started doing it as well. Sounds like there is no good reason to, so I'll stop. Thanks again. --Xyzzy ^Talk 23:41, 26 February 2013 (GMT)

Sorry, I know that this discussion is mostly wrapped up, and I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I want to state the other rationale for leaving redirects :P. In some situations, a redirect is created because it's possible that the redirect will be turned into a full-sized article, like Skyrim:Skeever. However, some redirects are meant to be linked past; for example, Skyrim:Vaermina to Skyrim:Vaernima (redirects for misspellings are made to help with searching). For me, I link to the redirect if there's any likelihood that it will be turned into a full-sized article, or if the information on the hub page that it redirects to will be moved. • JA^T 00:02, 27 February 2013 (GMT)

Data update

I've noticed that the numbers of samples of ingrediants are out-dated. Obviously, it didn't take DG and DB into count. Maybe some update is needed. Dreamshadow (talk) 09:42, 18 March 2013 (GMT)

If I were you, I would bring it up on the Ingredients talk page. Posting it on my talk page will only reach a very limited audience, and I don't have DB installed. --Xyzzy ^Talk 13:33, 18 March 2013 (GMT)

I see. Thanks any way Dreamshadow (talk) 13:53, 18 March 2013 (GMT)

Thank You, and a Concern about Your Edit

Hi Zyzzy,

Could you please see this discussion? I'm hoping to divert you around a virtual hornet's nest. Downstrike (talk) 23:47, 21 March 2013 (GMT)

Responded on the page in question. --Xyzzy ^Talk 03:46, 22 March 2013 (GMT)

I responded to your post on my talk page

Xyzzy, I got your comment. Thank you for the clarification. I posted a question for you, if you have time to look at it. Thank you. Vidian (talk) 16:47, 9 April 2013 (GMT)

First time players: stamina & carry weight discussion

Hiya :) Just wanted to make sure you saw this: Skyrim talk:First Time Players#Stamina and carry weight --Morrolan (talk) 23:45, 18 April 2013 (GMT)

Thank's CS

Thank's for correcting my spelling and use of words on the Critical Strike topic. If you think the data should be elswhere free feel to place it to its right place. I only wanted to share my research data since I didn't find it on UESP.

I've acquired these numbers through in-game testing. I used several weapons with different base damage value and they all confirmed these numbers. — Unsigned comment by 109.61.2.198 (talk) at 09:14 on 14 May 2013‎

I think your data is pretty much correct, but I question how much of it is necessary. It's pretty obvious that you were trying to make a case for not spending perk points on additional ranks of Deep Wounds and Bladesman, when the Critical Charge and Great Critical Charge bonuses provide more damage bonuses. We try to avoid too much advice in the articles, mainly because there are a nearly infinite number of play styles. --Xyzzy ^Talk 13:20, 14 May 2013 (GMT)

You are correct partially. What I wanted is to make the players see clearly that NOT ANY of these perks worth to invest in because of the low damage they deal. And to realise this extra damage won't get any higher no matter what you do. So as you obtain more and more weapon damage, less and less does the critical strike matter. Now they can see - through the numbers - the true nature of these Perks, as they are cloudily described. One doesn't know from the description what to expect. — Unsigned comment by 109.61.2.198 (talk)

To and fro

Had never heard of that before, but I looked it up. Thanks, I learned something new. --Rope Dog (talk) 02:43, 11 July 2013 (GMT)

No worries:). I had to look it up as well to make sure. --Xyzzy ^Talk 02:44, 11 July 2013 (GMT)

Serana and helmets.

Her built-in on-again off-again hood looks really weird if you give Serana a different set of armor to wear (well most any kind of armor outside of DB or leather); the reason for the helmet note was because this is the only way to stop it from appearing. I thought it was worth a note because her hood is a unique item, no other NPC has a part-time clothing item, and since Serana is both essential and can't be married it's impossible to remove it from her. --Morrolan (talk) 20:05, 19 July 2013 (GMT)

I don't think her hood's odd appearance or uniqueness warrants a note on her page. It's just not noteworthy, IMO. If you really feel strongly about it, I'd bring it up on her talk page and see if you can get consensus to note it. --Xyzzy ^Talk 20:43, 19 July 2013 (GMT)

Skyrim:Houses Free Shacks

You removed my entry of Anise's cabin from the list of free shacks on the grounds that it was not empty. If this is a requirement for the section, I think it should be clearly stated, e.g. "The following is a list of unoccupied shacks with a bed and at least one safe container".

Also, Meeko's shack can become occupied as well, so if you are firm on this rule, you should remove it as well.

Alternatively, perhaps a section could be added for such houses, since there aren't many in the game meeting all your criteria.

Dbbolton (talk) 05:26, 26 July 2013 (GMT)

It is clearly stated in the section's lead sentence: "There are several empty shacks around Skyrim, which contain a bed and a few non respawning containers". Anise's shack is occupied by an NPC that owns items inside it and will violently protest your occupation of it. This makes her shack somewhat less desirable for low-level players looking for a cheap place to squat, while higher-level players wouldn't need to bother when there are so many better choices available. IMO, this makes her shack irrelevant to this article. If you want to bring it up on the article's talk page and try to gain consensus for including, that would probably be the best course. As far as Meeko's shack, the dog doesn't count as an owner, making this shack "empty" for all intents and purposes. --Xyzzy ^Talk 05:53, 26 July 2013 (GMT)

Removing old posts

The reason for removing forum-like posts is to prevent a conversation from occurring/continuing and cluttering up the pages and RC. It's probably not necessary to remove old forum-like posts; nobody's replying to them and few people ever do. Vely^►t►e 23:00, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

Just slap a {{Closed Forum Topic}} on a discussion if it does gets revived. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 23:11, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

Okie-doke. --Xyzzy ^Talk 01:31, 16 August 2013 (GMT)

Follower trainers

I noticed you removed the remark about using Faendal to train archery on the Skyrim First Time Players page. Well, I sort of hate that whole section so I'm not going to beef about it, but your reasoning appeared to be that using followers to train skills and then trading back the gold from them was an exploit that's been patched. You should probably know that it's only been patched by USKP, so for all console players as well as PC players not using that mod, the rule is still that you can take back the training gold from your followers. --Morrolan (talk) 05:37, 21 August 2013 (GMT)

Yeah, I realized that about 5 minutes after I removed it. It is considered somewhat of an exploit, so I feel it shouldn't be added back, but I wouldn't object if somebody else did. --Xyzzy ^Talk 05:40, 21 August 2013 (GMT)

Just out of curiosity, how does USKP patch it? Do they make training gold disappear entirely, so making it impossible to pickpocket training gold back as well? Honestly I don't think it's an exploit, I kinda disagree with USKP on this one, but I want to trash that whole section of the First Time players page so :) --Morrolan (talk) 05:48, 21 August 2013 (GMT)

I'm not sure how they removed it. I know that you can no longer access a follower/trainer's gold through the "I need to trade something with you" option, but I haven't tried pickpocketing it. If you really wanted to know, you could ask Arthmoor. --Xyzzy ^Talk 13:43, 21 August 2013 (GMT)

Real contribution or nonsense and maybe to be removed?

Could you help giving an opinion on what I should do, or where a more proper place to ask this would be? I have a bit of trouble deciding if this is a genuine contribution or if it is just nonsense and then if it should be removed. What is the agreed policy on such things, and where can I find this? —MortenOSlash (talk) 17:27, 7 September 2013 (GMT)

It's not nonsense. It's mostly irrelevant, but isn't entirely irrelevant nor harmful, so you could remove it or leave it. Generally irrelevant things can be removed, but I personally like leaving things like that so long as they're not forum-like topics or 100% unrelated. Vely^►t►e 17:34, 7 September 2013 (GMT)

Yes, it might not be nonsense, at least not completely, but it could be a good reason to just delete it as it really does not contribute anything? —MortenOSlash (talk) 17:40, 7 September 2013 (GMT)

Fact about the Captain Valmir's tent. It's true. Guard of Dragons^{Speak To Me} 17:44, 7 September 2013 (GMT)

The conclusion I draw from you good judgement is, let it be, and just marking it with the unsigned template, then. Thank you for helping!

Only thing, is there a more proper place to discuss than just a random patroller I have noticed being online? Should I have gone to the Community Portal? —MortenOSlash (talk) 17:53, 7 September 2013 (GMT)

Since it doesn't have anything to do with the quest, a better place for it would be on Skyrim_talk:Forelhost. It seems trivial, but not irrelevant. If you do move it, make sure you leave a note with a link stating that it was moved, so that the OP can find it if they want to see if anyone responds. --Xyzzy ^Talk 18:45, 7 September 2013 (GMT)

South of Skyrim

Just a followup to the convo on the Glitches & Maps talk pages, since you're the only one who was really talking about this.

Directions! Start at Fort Neugrad. Head southeast across the lake, the one with the secret entrance to the prison in it. You are now at the bottom of a fairly tall mountain. Start heading east up the mountain, you will have to bank south a little bit at one point, but when you get to the top of the mountain and view your position on the map of Skyrim it will look like you're nearly due east of the fort. You will have a view of the fort from way above it, it's good screenshot material to be honest. Get over the mountain, it will be to the south of you. If you're on foot, you are going to have to jump a lot. Probably on horseback you should just be able to ride over it, and I suspect in beast form it'd be easy too.

Then you're into plain snow texture country. At the beginning there are a few rocks, but if you head south towards Cyrodiil from there they will start to quickly vanish. You can head east or west from there as well. Have fun exploring it :) --Morrolan (talk) 08:29, 24 September 2013 (GMT)

Well, I spent about an hour trying to duplicate your directions and failed. I started across the lake SE of the fort, managed to climb up the mountain and ended up east of the fort, then bashed my skull against the game boundary all the way to Southfringe Sanctum and the wooden gate that should lead to Cyrodiil. I tried it 3 separate times, including once with clipping turned off, and couldn't escape the game boundaries. Is it possible that the ability to escape is unique to the Xbox version? --Xyzzy ^Talk 00:13, 26 September 2013 (GMT)

It's possible. I wish I had an HDMI capture box so I could show you what I'm talking about exactly. But it seems quite possible that this is a leftover glitch that got patched on PC. Hmmm, that reminds me of something: did you try doing it on a fresh save with absolutely no mods? It's within the realm of possibility that USKP blocked this area off. --Morrolan (talk) 00:23, 26 September 2013 (GMT)

That thought occurred to me as well, though it didn't seem likely. I'll have to start a new game with the Unofficial Patches uninstalled to test it. --Xyzzy ^Talk 03:13, 26 September 2013 (GMT)

It's pretty quick to get to Fort Neugrad with a new character. Just complete Unbound, head right, go past Helgen and up the hill. However before you do that, you were heading towards Southfringe? Try going around the mountain the other way. It's possible that you went too far south, not enough east, to find the jumpable mountain. --Morrolan (talk) 03:26, 26 September 2013 (GMT)

I went as far east as I could, then was forced to go south and west. As far as getting there, I was just going to use the coc command and god mode just to speed things up. One of the benefits of playing on PC ;) --Xyzzy ^Talk 04:04, 26 September 2013 (GMT)

Kind hearted Arvel GQ

Ask Legoless, he's the one who marked it. It'd probably be better to hit his talk page directly, he probably won't see your question where it is and besides your remark isn't relevant to the question itself. --Morrolan (talk) 03:30, 26 September 2013 (GMT)

Questioning the legitimacy of a question is directly relevant to the question. I'll just leave it there for now and see what others say. --Xyzzy ^Talk 04:02, 26 September 2013 (GMT)

Skyrim Books

If you haven't already discovered it, you may find this mod useful in collecting books. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 23:17, 28 September 2013 (GMT)

Thanks. I think I saw this mod in somebody's list of useful mods on their userpage (it might even have been yours). Unfortunately, I think I've already read most if not all of the books I'm trying to collect, so its usefulness would be limited. Also, I'm trying to avoid installing mods other than AFK's Unofficial Patches so as to not interfere with bug testing. Thanks for pointing it out, though :) --Xyzzy ^Talk 00:12, 29 September 2013 (GMT)

Yeah, if you started a new game, it would probably work out well. Otherwise, as you say, not so much. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 02:50, 29 September 2013 (GMT)

Dragon shouts transclusion

That looked like a caching error on the Skyrim page. I removed the merger notice, but it doesn't seem to have updated the cache yet. Anyway try and check the source page, your transclusion was set up correctly, there's got to be something wrong with the Dragonborn page. --Morrolan (talk) 13:56, 30 September 2013 (GMT)

I purged both pages but didn't see a change. If I don't get a response from some knowledgable person by tonight, I'll ask for help from an admin. --Xyzzy ^Talk 15:44, 30 September 2013 (GMT)

Silencer and Psylocke took care of it already. — ABCface^◥ 16:02, 30 September 2013 (GMT)

I figured someone would. Good things come to those who wait :) --Xyzzy ^Talk 04:34, 1 October 2013 (GMT)

Ancient GQ on Imperial Soldiers

You have a GQ here: Skyrim talk:Imperial Soldier#Imperial Soldier descriptions. I'm not sure how to answer it. However the data does seem to have been filled in on the main page. Do you still need an answer to it? --Morrolan (talk) 01:16, 2 October 2013 (GMT)

Wow, that's a pretty old GQ. I think it's been filled out pretty well since I asked my question. IMO, you can remove the tag. --Xyzzy ^Talk 03:14, 2 October 2013 (GMT)

Dead Thrall wording

"Raise zombie" is a necromantic spell. However the generic term in Skyrim for raising spells appears to be reanimate. See Skyrim:Reanimate (spells).

"Enthrall" is used in the Volkihar version of the Dawnguard questline to refer to what you do to Dexion Evicus in Skyrim:Prophet (Vampire), and in general it's connected to the Skyrim:Vampire's Seduction power; I think Vingalmo uses it in his dialogue in Skyrim:The Gift. Maybe use reanimate instead? --Morrolan (talk) 14:12, 3 October 2013 (GMT)

Sounds reasonable. I can see where "enthrall" might be confused with the effects of vampire seduction, although linking it should clear up any confusion once a reader clicked on it. Reanimate sounds best. --Xyzzy ^Talk 16:32, 3 October 2013 (GMT)

Civil War

Hey Xyzzy, I was just wondering if I was missing something regarding some of your recent edits in which you changed "civil war" to be capitalized. Is there a discussion about this somewhere, or a rule that I'm not aware of? Related in-game content consistently uses lowercase, and that's what I've tried to consistently use on the wiki for that reason. If I'm mistaken and that's incorrect, can you point out where the relevant information is that says so? Thanks! — ABCface^◥ 21:56, 6 October 2013 (GMT)

I think it would depend on the context which "civil war" is used. For example, if it is used to refer to the Skyrim Civil War, then I think it should be "the Civil War". If it's used to refer to any non-specific event, then it would be "civil war". This is the general rule for capitalization that I've always known and gone with which is what I would use here on the wiki unless there is a specific guideline. I don't believe there is any guideline about this situation currently. •WoahBro^►talk 22:11, 6 October 2013 (GMT)

I disagree. I'm not sure where you get your general rule from, but a part of it is incorrect. From my understanding of capitalisation in the English language, and according to wikipedia's manual of style, full names of wars (i.e. their proper names) are capitalised, such as "Spanish Civil War", and in our case, "Skyrim Civil War" (but even the game never capitalises this though). Generic terms such as "civil war" and "revolution" are always decapitalised; hence, "the Civil War" shouldn't be capitalised. Here are examples of "civil war" in dialogue lines where all of them are decapitalised. ~ Psylocke 00:22, 7 October 2013 (GMT)

That's exactly what I was going with. There are some in-game instances where the devs used civil war, but the correct usage when referring to a specific one would be capitalized, just like any other specific war (e.g. the War of the Red Diamond). When used in the Skyrim namespace, the "Skyrim" portion is assumed, rather than forcing us to type out "Skyrim Civil War" each time. --Xyzzy ^Talk 00:25, 7 October 2013 (GMT)

Hmm, I guess the reasoning in your last sentence, that the Skyrim part is assumed, makes a bit of sense, even if it's not really what I'm inclined to go with. I'll let this one go, I guess (though I will point out that it's not "some" in-game instances of using lowercase, it's every single instance). Carry on, then. :) — ABCface^◥ 02:27, 7 October 2013 (GMT)

Well, I'm also not really inclined to go with this. ABCface may let it slide, but to me, the issue is still sitting on the fence, because saying just "the Civil War" is still ambiguous to me. Why not just add "Skyrim" in front of it instead of just assuming the Skyrim part, hence definitely making it a proper name which I agree must be capitalised (like the "War of the Red Diamond" example you gave). If we are just typing "the civil war", then I'm more inclined to have it decapitalised, as it is consistent with all NPC dialogue lines (NPCs refer to their own "Skyrim Civil War" simply as "the civil war"), and at the same time also consistent with the manual of style.

Long story short: if capitalised, the word "Skyrim" should precede it; all other instances are decapitalised for consistency. ~ Psylocke 05:32, 7 October 2013 (GMT)

I think it depends on whether you assume this is the only civil war that's taken place in Skyrim. (And I don't know my Lore worth a damn, so don't ask me! :P) Using the American Civil War as an example, it's normally capitalized because there was only one, and in the US, the "Civil War" has become its proper title through common usage. One could argue that the same thing occurs in Skyrim, but the one difference here is that the war is ongoing. Noticeably, during the American Civil War, most of the references were lower case, since, at that time, they didn't think of it as the (one and only) civil war, it was just a civil war, and they had no idea whether there would be others. So, using that information, my vote would be for lower-case in all instances. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 06:30, 7 October 2013 (GMT)

Hmm.. RH brought up a good point. It may explain why the devs made the NPCs refer to the war as "the civil war" generically, instead of the "Skyrim Civil War". Anyway, I won't speculate on that. All I'm saying is that, on this wiki where we document about the war and refer to it, you can type it as capitalised ("Skyrim Civil War", the full name), or as decapitalised ("the civil war", as the NPCs put it, and per the MoS), but no in-betweens ("the Civil War"). Are we okay with this? ~ Psylocke 12:17, 7 October 2013 (GMT)

(←) From the above linked Wikipedia MoS: "As a rule of thumb, if a battle, war, etc. has its own Wikipedia article (or UESP article in our case) with capitalized name, the name should be capitalized in articles linked to it as it is in the article name." I think that the way it used in in-game dialogue "...Nazeem is obsessed with this civil war, as is all of Skyrim..." is just speaking about the current conflict, not from a documentational standpoint. --Xyzzy ^Talk 23:49, 7 October 2013 (GMT)

Hee I half-expected that you were gonna use that against me when I read through the MoS, so I prepared a conter-argument beforehand.

Firstly, when Wikipedia said, "As a rule of thumb, if a battle, war, etc. has its own Wikipedia article with capitalized name, the name should be capitalized in articles linked to it as it is in the article name," it is referring to named civil wars which have their own articles in Wikipedia. None of them are named "The Civil War"; they have names such as "<Country Name> Civil War" or "<Country Name> civil war", or something different altogether like "Bleeding Kansas". Wikipedia also has an article for "Civil War" (which redirects to "Civil war") to explain such a war generically.

Now, in our wiki, the article Civil War was created long before this discussion, on March 2012. We do not actually know the proper name of the civil war in Skyrim, (15:03, 8 October 2013 (GMT) - EDIT: Actually we do know its proper name; read on below for further explanation.) So if you really want to refer to it as capitalised in documentation, a logical name to give it would be [[Skyrim:Skyrim Civil War]]. Then, it would be appropriate to say "As a rule of thumb etc. etc..." Like I said before, I'm completely fine to have "Skyrim Civil War" capitalised across the wiki, but I'm not really inclined to go with "the Civil War". ~ Psylocke 01:08, 8 October 2013 (GMT)

Wikipedia has to specify "American" Civil War because it is a general interest wiki, and isn't broken into nice neat namespaces like we are. Lorespace is more like Wikipedia, where this conflict is referred to as the Stormcloak Rebellion. Since the main article for this conflict is titled "Civil War", that's what is being linked. If we need to change the article to "Skyrim Civil War" or "Stormcloak Rebellion" and alter all of the links accordingly, then so be it. I just think this is unnecessary, since I believe the "Skyrim" portion is assumed. --Xyzzy ^Talk 02:59, 8 October 2013 (GMT)

It is not unnecessary. I did some searching around the wiki. You mentioned that since the main article is named "Civil War", links pointing to this page are also capitalised. But how about the other 100+ instances of "civil war" used in articles, but are not linked? Are we only going to capitalise those that link to the article? Go ahead and do a scan; you can see that majority of them are decapitalised. I don't think I would want to just let these inconsistencies persist in the wiki. We will have pages saying "... yada yada the Civil War ... ..." and "... yada yada the civil war ... ...". So, thoughts?

As for moving the article, maybe. If you look at the history of Lore:Stormcloak Rebellion, it was moved there from Lore:Skyrim Civil War, and the reason given was "per request, moved to proper name given to conflict in Skyrim" (I can't find the discussion regarding the rename though). Anyway, a separate is discussion is probably needed for renaming; I'm more concerned about the capitalisation in this discussion. ~ Psylocke 15:03, 8 October 2013 (GMT)

If we are going to capitalize it when it's first mention is linked, we should also capitalize repeated mentions that aren't linked, which is what I was doing. I was wondering the same thing about the Lore redirect from Skyrim Civil War, but haven't taken the time to search the AN and CP archives, where a discussion about this would probably take place. --Xyzzy ^Talk 15:51, 8 October 2013 (GMT)

(←) Not sure if its useful, but Online is specifically stating that there was a civil war in Valenwood before the game year. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 22:55, 16 October 2013 (GMT)

Please give me some clues!

Hi Xyzzy, please can you give some feedback as to what specific issues you had with the details I added to the Gloombound Mine as just putting too many issues to cleanup doesn't help me ensure that I don't make the same mistakes again. I understand that in the edit summary there isn't a lot of room to go into detail, but surely leaving a short note on my talk page would help me and save you having me repeat the same mistakes? Biffa (talk) 08:54, 7 October 2013 (GMT)

Hello, Biffa. I'm not Xyzzy; I wanna inform you that I re-added the info you provided and did a preliminary proofreading and organising. I just want to let you know that all your contributions are very much appreciated :D. I'm sure it took you a deal of effort to come up with the info.

Just a side note for Xyzzy: if you see an issue that you think is beyond your capacity and can't resolve, don't just revert it. I've seen far worse wall-of-texts when Dragonborn was just released on Xbox. You can slap on a {{Cleanup}} tag on the page; I'm sure another editor or editors will eventually clean it up - the wiki is a collaborative effort :) ~ Psylocke 12:17, 7 October 2013 (GMT)

I wasn't taking it to heart, I'm just interested in improving the way I add info, so that others like yourself don't have to spend so much time correcting/updating it. Whenever I post and someone has to change it I try and look at what changes were necessary to learn from it and hopefully not make the same mistakes. Biffa (talk) 12:53, 7 October 2013 (GMT)

For starters, you can break up your wall of text by separating them into different headers and with a little paragraphing. You can use more conjunctions in your sentences to make them flow better, and also to eliminate comma splices. You can also add intrawiki links for NPCs, for notable features (e.g. a forge), notable items (e.g. a skill book), and many others.

You might also want to check out the help pages linked in your welcome message; they're quite useful :) Also, if you have any other questions regarding wiki formatting etc., feel free to ask, or you can approach a mentor. ~ Psylocke 13:20, 7 October 2013 (GMT)

Heya Biffa, a good idea for you would be to look through the Featured Articles. By looking at these, you can get a sense of how the highest quality articles look, are formatted, wording, etc. and strive to make each article as good as these ones! •WoahBro^►talk 14:13, 7 October 2013 (GMT)

(←) Mea culpa. I didn't take the time to properly look this edit over before I undid it. My apologies. --Xyzzy ^Talk 03:00, 8 October 2013 (GMT)

Thank you Xyzzy, an apology was not expected, I was just asking for what the issues were to improve my updates. I will look at the Featured Articles, the other acticles and also the links you (Xyzzy) have at the top of your user page. Biffa (talk) 13:15, 8 October 2013 (GMT)

MJ's posts on my talk page

I posted to MJ's talk page, hopefully he/she/it will learn to put the posts in the right spots. However when you move stuff off of my talk page, could you put in a discussion moved template? It's really confusing for me because the edits to my talk page mean I get the new messages alert when I login, and then I go to look at my talk page and there's nothing new there, so I then check the history and go aha! Xyzzy moved stuff. :)

The discussion moved template might help encourage the newbie to put posts in the right spots too. --Morrolan (talk) 04:29, 10 October 2013 (GMT)

I didn't use the template because I wasn't really moving an entire discussion, just a misplaced response. I was relying on the edit summary to indicate what had happened to it, not thinking about the new message alert you would get. Sorry for the confusion. I'm just not sure that the template would really be appropriate in this situation, but I also can't think of a better way to handle this. I'll think of a good way to indicate this before I do it again. --Xyzzy ^Talk 04:48, 10 October 2013 (GMT)

Regarding Redguards

Hello. I was curious... where does it state that Redguards are "wiry-haired"? That statement seems rather bias, and false...

P.S. I appreciate that you corrected my solution to the Amulet of Talos bug. Afro-Eurasian (talk) 08:49, 12 October 2013 (GMT)

Just hopping in here to say that Morrowind's In-Game description for the Redguard calls them "The most naturally talented warriors in Tamriel, the dark-skinned, wiry-haired Redguards of Hammerfell..."--Skyrimplayer (talk) 13:08, 12 October 2013 (GMT)

What he said. As I stated in my edit summary, if you disagree with something in the articles, the best thing to do would be to bring it up on that article's talk page. Simply removing something without an edit summary is the best way to get your edit reverted. --Xyzzy ^Talk 14:29, 12 October 2013 (GMT)

Ah, I see. Thanks for letting me know, Skyrimplayer. And my apologies for removing that. I thought somebody added it. I didn't know that's how Morrowind describes Redguards. Afro-Eurasian (talk) 23:17, 12 October 2013 (GMT)

Two times east-southeast of Dragon Bridge?

I observe you put in the same note about the warlock over a dead Imperial east-southeast of Dragon Bridge both under Smaller Places of Interest and Unmarked Ruins and Monuments on Skyrim:Unmarked Places. Was it a miss or are we supposed to list those under several sections where they might fit in? —MortenOSlash (talk) 20:51, 23 October 2013 (GMT)

Nope. I screwed up. I started to put it in the Smaller Places section, then changed my mind and decided to put it in the Ruins section instead, but must have saved the first one by accident. Thanks for catching that. --Xyzzy ^Talk 21:50, 23 October 2013 (GMT)

Ok. Easily done. I thought it better to ask than just delete, as I rarely follow discussions between the more experienced editors. It could easily have been something new. —MortenOSlash (talk) 22:15, 23 October 2013 (GMT)

Why do you keep undoing my changes

Especially since i provided proof with in game testing that the old info is wrong. 205.206.75.3 19:10, 27 October 2013 (GMT)

Check the talk page. You have been told repeatedly to wait for consensus before removing the info. You have done so three times, which is grounds for a block for edit warring. There is no rush to get rid of it. Wait for consensus. --Xyzzy ^Talk 19:12, 27 October 2013 (GMT)

Glenroy: Hotheaded

Glenroy is hotheaded. That is why I added the note to the article.

Just listen to his dialogue and most of his dialogue his filled with anger and desire to kill the Player.

Let me tell you what hotheadness means then:

Hot-headed

Adjective

Having an impetuous or quick-tempered nature. "a hot-headed youth"

Synonyms: Impetuous, impulsive, headstrong, reckless, rash, irresponsible, foolhardy, madcap, wild, excitable, volatile, precipitate, overhasty, unruly, fiery, hot-tempered, and quick-tempered

Volatile and hot-headed both mean the same, but volatile is when someone changes for the worst.

Example below:

After Glenroy sees you again when Baurus has told you not to follow them onwards:

"Dammit, it's that prisoner again! Kill them, they might be working with the assassins."

Glenroy was expecting the worse there, and was becoming volatile.

We have enough evidence to state, by fact, that Glenroy is hotheaded/volatile.

I would explain more dialogue and how it makes Glenroy seem hotheaded/volatile, but I wouldn't want to try to prove a lot more, just to make you believe me - because, as I said earlier in my reply, we DO have enough evidence to believe that hotheadedness is one of his personality traits.

Finally, did you think that it was opinion for me to say his personality trait being hotheadedness?

DG^{Any Questions?} 20:26, 4 November 2013 (GMT)

Let me inform you what it actually is: an opinion. You could as well describe him as overly-paranoid, but thats an opinion. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 20:54, 4 November 2013 (GMT)

We do have enough evidence to describe him as hot-headed. I bet if I mentioned it on the Community Portal, everyone would agree with me that he is hot-headed, but even though it is still opinion, it is actually true that he is hot-headed. You can't deny it. DG^{Any Questions?} 21:18, 4 November 2013 (GMT)

You forget where you are. This is a wiki and wiki's deal in facts, not opinions. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 21:19, 4 November 2013 (GMT)

Don't ask on the Community Portal. It is too specific a question for such an important place on the site. Just let it go. •WoahBro^►talk 21:52, 4 November 2013 (GMT)

All of your explanation is unnecessary, Dragonguard. I didn't remove your note because it wasn't accurate, I said it wasn't notable, as in not worth writing a note about. We shouldn't be listing personality traits in an NPCs notes section. If mentioned at all, it should be incorporated into the NPCs description. --Xyzzy ^Talk 21:57, 4 November 2013 (GMT)

If we merge it into the main description, then let's have a consensus oppose vs support on here. DG^{Any Questions?} 22:44, 4 November 2013 (GMT)

(←) On what? There's nothing worth voting on. ThuumofReason (talk) 22:53, 4 November 2013 (GMT)

I'll do as Xyzzy says. DG^{Any Questions?} 08:25, 5 November 2013 (GMT)

Unstars

I believe the references to unstars making up the Snake is taken from Michael Kirkbride OOG. Minor Edits^{Threats•Evidence} 17:02, 15 November 2013 (GMT)

Is there any way to find the source of info from TIL, or do we just accept their lore as-is? I have never heard mention of "unstars" anywhere within ES canon. --Xyzzy ^Talk 00:41, 16 November 2013 (GMT)

I don't believe the lore guidelines on OOG cites favor mentioning "unstars" at all. It's being used to support a statement of fact, it doesn't resolve any apparent contradictions, and what it explains about in-game content is marginal. But I trust TIL to accurately accredit and publish OOG developer writings. If you want to check, you could talk to their admins or try to get right from the horse's mouth. Minor Edits^{Threats•Evidence} 01:13, 16 November 2013 (GMT)

Hearthfire bookshelf bug & Oghma Infinium

I remember you posted somewhere that on a bookshelf on a Hearthfire house, the capacity had changed from the usual 11 books to something bigger. I can't remember where you posted it. Anyway - yesterday I noticed that when I read the Oghma Infinium from a bookshelf in Lakeview Manor (and it then disappeared), the capacity changed from 11 books to 17. Is it possible that this is what happened with you? Were you storing the Oghma Infinium on the bookshelf that started acting weird? --Morrolan (talk) 17:05, 24 November 2013 (GMT)

No. I am trying to collect one of each in-game book in my library in Windstad Manor and was storing them in the bookshelves there, and noticed that the capacity of several of the shelves was greater than 11 (my original question is located here). --Xyzzy ^Talk 06:22, 28 November 2013 (GMT)