User talk:RIM

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Hello RIM! Welcome to UESPWiki. It's always good to have new members. If you would like to help improve any of our pages, you may want to take a look at the following links:

If you, on the other hand, would like to spice up your userpage, take a look at this link:

  • Userboxes: near complete list of userboxes, including a guide to make your own

When you're editing, it's always a good idea to leave edit summaries to explain the changes you have made to a particular page, and remember to sign your talk page posts with four tildes ~~~~. Also, the "show preview" button is a great way to view the changes you've made so far without actually saving the page (our patrollers really appreciate it!).

Feel free to practice editing in the sandbox or discuss the games in the forums. If you need any help, don't hesitate to contact one of our mentors. Have fun! --AKB Talk Cont Mail 15:55, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

About the Marriage Thing.[edit]

I remember in one interview that you can marry any race you want, If I am mistaken may I see where you got the info. Fin Dova Feyn 11:38, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Weird, I found on N64 saying that you could not marry all races but it turned out that it meant not all npcs. By npcs they meant giants, dremora and other things technically classed as npcs. Yes you are right about the marriage thing, I just found out that Pete Hines said "you can marry anyone". Thanks for pointing that out.
On another note this shows the character creation at the start of Skyrim' tutorial dungeon! RIM 12:58, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
"By npcs they meant giants, dremora [...]", does that mean we can mod them to become playable races? I assumed Dremora would be in to make playable, but playing as a giant... didn't think about that yet! ~ Dwarfmp 13:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
I only play on the Xbox so I don't know much about about modding, but there was a dremora race mod in oblivion wasn't there? A giant race may well be possible, just one more reason to play Skyrim on the PC. Also, seeing as there was a flyable dragon mod in Oblivion there will almost certainly be on in Skyrim. RIM 13:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Darn it, does that mean you can't marry dragons? ;( Kitkat xxx TalkContribE-mail 13:10, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Ha ha,a bheadh ​​go leanbh aisteach! RIM 13:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
God Bless You? Who knew you could sneeze and type at that same type. Hnnnggg! Azure_King 07:47, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
It can also mean "that would be a weird child", are you Irish?RIM 10:18, 4 December 2011 (UTC)


Féidir leat a shamhlú? Mil, im bhaile! RAAWWRRRR!! lolz :P Kitkat xxx TalkContribE-mail 13:21, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, although Bethesda never actually clarified what they meant when they said you couldn't ride dragons, so who knows! RIM 13:25, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Is é sin an trácht a bhuachaint!! ;) Kitkat xxx TalkContribE-mail 13:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Buíochas a ghabháil leat go mór Kitkat! RIM 13:36, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

() I didn't know you guys spoke Dragon ~ Dwarfmp 16:18, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Ha ha, it's actually Irish or Gaeilge. RIM 20:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Thats weird, I didn't know I spoke dragon either ;) Kitkat xxx TalkContribE-mail 21:36, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
An bhfuil sibh cainteoirí dúchais? Tá mo chuid Gaeilge uafásach. --Legoless 21:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
I kind of speak fluently, not native though. RIM 21:59, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Cónaí orm sa Ghaeltacht i gCiarraí nuair a bhí mé beag, agus a labhairt liom Gaeilge agus Béarla sa bhaile. Do Gaeilge níos fearr ná an chuid is mó! :) Kitkat xxx TalkContribE-mail 22:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Haha, toisc bhualadh sé isteach orm sula raibh mé labhairt. Tá a lán bearnaí i mo eolas. --Legoless 22:11, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
My Gaelige is actually kinda rusty, I'm trying to improve my English skills. Kitkat xxx TalkContribE-mail 22:17, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
So, you don't speak fluent English? Because I thought your English was perfect. RIM 15:25, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
I suppose my English is pretty fluent. I've attended an english speaking school in Dublin for the last 6 years, though. I'm trying to get better at English because it's like, one of the most useful languages in the world. But it would be sad if people stopped speaking ás Gaelige. Its such a beautiful language. Kitkat xxx TalkContribE-mail 15:52, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, damn Normans! Oh, something you may not have known is that China is the biggest English speaking country in the world, over 500 million speak English there. RIM 17:11, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Please refrain from using your talk page for general chat. :) Regarding the China thing, their grammar tend to be terrible though. This is mainly because the Chinese language has no inflections. They use a single 是 to express am/is/are/was/were/be. That's why some would find it difficult to deal with inflections in the English language.
OngoingwhyTalk 18:05, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Sorry about that, I was just trying to answer a question about Skyrim and then it kind of just went off tpoic...Most of the posts were not actually mine though. Sorry. RIM 18:16, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

() I get all the credit for steering this conversation off course ;) Kitkat xxx TalkContribE-mail 18:19, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

There's no need to apologize. Why do people always apologize to me? =/ And yeah, it's totally Kitkat's fault. :)
OngoingwhyTalk 18:20, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, thanks KitKat:), since this edit is so long I'm going to split it up between the Skyrim question and the other part. RIM 18:25, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Learning Gaeilge would be easier if my múinteoir wasn't so annoying. RIM, what dialect do you speak in? I speak in Ulster Irish. CMH 20:06, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
Oh um...Dublin/Leinster Irish I guess, whatever one they teach us in school:)RIM 20:13, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Just a bit of Code for you[edit]

I spotted on your page your counting down the days till Skyrim, and rather than keep having to edit the number to show the days flicking down theres a bit of code you could use to do it automatically.

{{ForYMD|year={{CURRENTYEAR}}|month={{CURRENTMONTH}}|day={{CURRENTDAY}}|year2=2011|month2=11|day2=11|unitsep= }} 

That could produces this effect - ' -7 years, 4 months, and 3 days ' I don't know if this is of any use/help to you. Just thought i'd mention it though. --Kiz ·•· Talk ·•· Contribs ·•· Mail ·•· 18:11, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Ahh, thats actually very usefull, thanks! I hope you like my bit about the Skyrim info, I update it regularly. Thanks. RIM 18:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
I can see, some of it is useful. Are there any references to the articles i can read? That would also be useful :) --Kiz ·•· Talk ·•· Contribs ·•· Mail ·•· 18:19, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
I'll put up some references soon. Some of it you can find by reading Wikipedia. — Unsigned comment by RIM (talkcontribs) at 19:21 on 25 September 2011
My post here missed a bit of the code off. I added it in, i just added the correct spacing in for you. Hope you don't mind :)
Yeah no problem. BTW, this
Is the source of some of my Skyrim info. I'll add others if I find them. RIM 18:28, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Also, this has some important info including two perk trees. RIM 18:41, 25 September 2011 (UTC)


You've been doing a great job helping us start build the Skyrim namespace, however, you may wish to look at the coding of the other Skyrim per-release pages without editing them. The reason for this request is that you've been forgetting to add a few things to the articles you've been making. Someone will eventually work on the formatting to make the article's better, but it helps everyone out if you learn how to format articles. For example, all Skyrim articles are supposed to have {{Pre-Release}} at the top of the page. You could also look over the tables that are already here so you can learn how to make them (Or just copy one for your purposes). Final note, we basically never use indents on articles. I'm not trying to discourage you at all, I've been making plenty of mistakes myself. But if you take my advice you'll be able to save other editors some time and effort. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 14:50, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

Sorry I didn't know about the pre-release content banner at the top of the page, but wouldn't it be easier to just make it so that all Skyrim pages automatically have it? That's exactly what I meant earlier when I said that I didn't want to waste editors time fixing the pages I made, but thanks though I'll look at the formating in future:) RIM 17:06, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

Speak American![edit]

Just a note: we use American English. So instead of "Armour", you should use "Armor" on articles. No one cares which you use on talk pages though. I understand it can be a bit annoying to remember which one is appropriate, so give the article I linked a read through if you need more help. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 16:15, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Actually I did use the American spelling of Armor in every sentence when I wrote the page, I wasn't the one who created the "Armour" page though.RIM 18:52, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
I didn't say you did on that article, though you did create Skyrim:Armour (It won't say you did as I moved the page). You did spell "armor" as "armour" in this edit as well though. That's not what made me remind you though, it was the creating an article with the British spelling. This is an easy enough problem to resolve, but I just wanted to make sure you were aware of UESP policy when it comes to spelling. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 21:16, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
Sorry, I just assumed that you meant the armor page. I created the page "Armour" by clicking on a red link that was already called "Skyrim: Armour, page does not exist".Anyway, I'll try to speak American in future.RIM 21:27, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
All I asked, thanks. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 21:30, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
I always thought it was a bit strange that though the spelling is American (of course, because the game is), that the the elven characters in oblivion (pretty much yeah) have a British accent. I always think of Rythe Lathandas saying: "the bRRRRistles of the bRRRRush" ~ Dwarfmp 21:39, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
Just on that note, talk to Modryn Oreyn about duties when he already has them and repeatedly enter and exit the conversation so that he only says "I've got.." probably the weirdest sound in Oblivion.RIM 21:49, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Getting logged out[edit]

Hey, I noticed that whenever I use show preview on any of the skyrim pages, I get logged out, anybody know how to fix this? Thanks.RIM 16:21, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't know myself, but if your using Google Chrome this particular discussion might shed some light on the situation. And if your are using Google Chrome and have this problem the solution seems to be try IE or Firefox. I use Chrome however and don't have this problem. --Kiz ·•· Talk ·•· Contribs ·•· Mail ·•· 16:48, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
I don't use Google Chrome though, but thanks anyway:)RIM 16:50, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
Which browser do you use? Are you getting a 'loss of session data' message or are you being turned completely into an IP? And in your Browser is there an option along the lines of 'Allow local data to be set (recommended)' that needs to be enabled. But this one should be disabled - 'Clear cookies and other site and plug-in data when I close my browser'. Thats all pulled from the aforementioned discussion. Just a bit of help that solved OnGoingWhy's problem. -- Kiz ·•· Talk ·•· Contribs ·•· Mail ·•· 16:58, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
I use google and all that happens is that I get turned back into my ip address and it says that I can't edit Skrim pages because I don't have an account.It's really annoying because I've had to rewrite about 7 or 8 pages because I used show preview and then saved the page and the the message appears saying that I have to be logged in!

RIM 17:04, 11 October 2011 (UTC)


Congrats - you are now a UserPatroller. Please make sure you read the UESPWiki:Patrollers page and associated page for guidelines. rpeh •TCE 21:02, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll do my best!RIM 22:05, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Pointer for Spell Pages[edit]

I saw your two pages today and promptly added Spell Summaries. Well, since you don't know how to i'll explain, the easiest way to do it. Because most (if not all) of the effects are the same, fundamently, the same. This means you can copy it over form the Oblivion article. Find the equivalent Oblivion article copy the code out. And remove all the fields bar the following - {{Effects Summary| |Image=[[Image:O-Silence.gif]] |School=Illusion |Type=Offensive |Avail= }} That's an example of the silence one i just did. You just change the fields and it does the rest, even colours it for you. Somehow? Hope this helps, a bit. --Kiz ·•· Talk ·•· Contribs ·•· Mail ·•· 17:10, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, I actually got the last page I wrote to include the info box by doing that but thanks anyway.RIM 17:14, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
S'alright, we all help each other at some point or other :) --Kiz ·•· Talk ·•· Contribs ·•· Mail ·•· 17:18, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
And, be careful with the OB Mysticism Skill Effects. They need changing. --Kiz ·•· Talk ·•· Contribs ·•· Mail ·•· 17:59, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
Sorry, I forgot the spell changed school.


Choco chip cookie.png
You have been given a cookie!

Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say:

You've done a lot to help out, and you've put some serious effort into improving your editing. I think you deserve a treat for what you've done so far to help out. Keep up the good work! --AKB Talk Cont Mail 18:44, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Oh thanks, I don't actually get a cookie do I?RIM 18:47, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Well, no. That is, unless you plan on purchasing a cookie to celebrate you receiving a virtual cookie. So, enjoy your virtual cookie as much as virtually possible. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 19:33, 28 October 2011 (UTC) I don't think I will. Thanks though, good to see that somebody appreciates my effort.:)RIM 19:36, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Just a quick question :)[edit]

i was looking over all the neat facts you have gathered about skyrim and i was wondering where you got the information about the argonians not being able to breath underwater, can you verify that? as that is a major disappointment to me and i would like to know for sure. thanks! --Joshdaman123 06:46, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

It was in a "one hour" playthrough, but as far as I remember, instead of naturally breathing underwater, they now have a racial spell instead to breathe underwater.RIM 10:42, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip![edit]

Hey, thanks for the tip on my userpage, I'm pretty new to this type of wiki, I'm more used to the wikia kind. But thanks for your comment on my userpage and I'll be sure to preview it more in future.

Many Thanks, --Void 21:24, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

No problem, just doing my job:)RIM 21:26, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome[edit]

Hey man, thanks for starting up my talk page with that welcome. I'm not too bothered about getting noticed, but I'm glad someone knows I'm here xD The Invisible Chocobo 16:55, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Oh, no problem. I just noticed that you had made a few edits and nobody had even acknowledged your existence:)RIM 16:57, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
I've interacted with a few members but no proper welcomes before yours. How is it that you notice my edits? In terms of wiki editing, this is my first experience and I know bugger all xD I decided to help out because of how helpful this site was to me with the Oblivion pages and I like editing and contributing and stuffs. =3 The Invisible Chocobo 17:05, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
You can click "recent changes" on the left side of the page which shows all of the recent edits, I'm a userspace patroller so for edits to a userpage, like yours, there are red exclamation marks next to them.RIM 17:08, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
Awesome, thanks! Is that for all the edits all over the site? I would have thought that there'd be way too many to put into a list that gets looked over. Are we a smaller team than I thought? =3 Also, would it be an idea for me to try and make a dent in the pages that need images sometime? Once I read up on how to do it, it's something simple enough that I could work on as a sort of first project. The Invisible Chocobo 17:11, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
Yes all the edits to the site, although only the last 50 or something like that. You can see all of the userspace patrolllers and patrollers on it's page, it was in the links in the welcome message. As for the images, that would be a great help, just make sure they are clear. On most of the pages you may find a message saying that the page could use an image, if that's the case you are more than welcome to add an image:)RIM 17:15, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
Mm-hmm, I'll follow the information on the Help:Images page as best I can. There's 1,253 Skyrim pages needing images according to the list so I figured I'd lend a hand. Thanks again for pulling me into the community =D The Invisible Chocobo 17:21, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks For Support[edit]

Thank you for your support in the nomination, much appreciated :) --Manic 17:43, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

No problem, I think your qualified to press a button that says mark as patrolled:)RIM 17:49, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, but I think you may have made an error ?[edit]

I'm not sure, as have only played through this section once - but the quest you have just added all the text for under get outfitted is actually Fit for a Jarl.

Now either the two listed people give the same quest, possible, but it still should not need two different pages for the same quest.

Or the Fit for a Jarl quest is ONLY given by Taarie of Radiant Raiment which ties in more with my experience of the game. Which leaves open the question of whether or not Beirand actually gives a quest ...

Alonella 22:54, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

PS I went to do EXACTLY what you did this afternoon, but realised the confusion of the two quests... I should have been clearer in my question only I am new to contributing to the Wikki - sorry...

No problem, I started a talk page on the quest page about that. I assumed that was the right quest because I had just done it:)RIM 20:11, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
LOL! that was exactly my mode of thought... it was only cos I checked the description of Bits and Pieces and it didn't say "fine clothing", that I spotted it myself. It also explains why I've not had a quest to go to Bits and Pieces (have not joined either the Imperials or the Stormcloaks yet). However, that raises the question of should the quest be there at all - having looked at the corrected description the quest is not GIVEN by Beirand???
Also could you please confirm that only Miscellaneous quests should be in this table? Some users seem to put all quests in it and others insist it is only Miscellaneous quests (the heading seems to agree with the latter group:) However I appreciate the need for consistency and there are several inconsistencies I've spotted - whichever way it should be - am happy to correct, but need a definitive answer before so doing:))
Sorry, I used to be a Technical Author and can supply pedantry whenever required :)) Alonella 00:27, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
Beirand gives you the Imperial armour, the high elf woman who works at bits and pieces, or was it radiant raiment?, gives you the quest to show off the clothes to the jarl. I think Legatte Rikke gives you the quest to get the armour, it could also have been Gen. Tullius. Sorry, all my fault, I just assumed it was the quest to show the clothes to the jarl.RIM 20:43, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
Yes, that's my point, the quest is given in Solitude, so it should be on that page somewhere ... but Beirand does not GIVE THE QUEST - she is the the end point for the quest, so she should not be listed as the quest GIVER which she currently is... Alonella 21:45, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
I haven't checked that page in a while and now it seems to be ok, you should feel free to change anything like that on your own, you don't need to get permission. Thanks for clearing that up. The problem with these kinds of quests is that they have no name in the game but we still have to give them a name on the wiki. Thanks again.RIM 16:35, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
Ahh I see ... have not done that quest yet so didn't realise it was a quest with no name, that explains why no one else was brave enough to jump in and say anything :)
I am an editor so I can spot an inconsistency a mile away, but being an editor also gives me an innate respect for standards. So not being able to find any documentation and being new to contributing to this particular Wikki, thought it was safest to ask first; as I wasn't sure which was the correct correction to make. Am very appreciative of the help though - have learned a lot from it.
PS have just checked my talk age - thanks for saying Hello - also means I can find the documentation easily now:)) Alonella 22:01, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
No problem, I'm a userspace patroler so it's sort of my job:) Anyway, no harm done and good thing you spotted it. As I said it's sort of hard to start quest pages with no quest name in the game. If you find any problems that you know are incorect you can just change them and explain why in your edit summary:)RIM 22:15, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, I will do, IF I know what the right answer is:) In this case I didn't .... mind you it is a bit daunting telling a patroller you think they've made a mistake:) At least you turned out to be a nice, encouraging person ... Thanks again and hope you have a good holiday season ... Alonella 22:23, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
No problem, I'm only a userspace patroler though:). Merry Christmas to you too.RIM 22:25, 20 December 2011 (UTC)


Hey RIM! I thought you might be interested in the contents of this sandbox, as well as the corresponding conversation found here. Both me and Lego are seriously busy with real life these days, and the intro you just wrote is more than helpful. Feel free to participate on said talk page - and also to edit the Sandbox if you have any ideas. All the best, --Krusty 23:17, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't know there was a sandbox for that quest, I'll help out any way I can. Thanks. Busy with real life? Losers:)RIM 10:01, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
Haha, how could you know? Anyway, I see you already added info to the sandbox, so thanks! What we need now is merely some minor walkthroughs on each location (more for layout than usefulness), then a quick test if the treasure spawns with the torture victims (meaning, you don't have to talk to them at all- or, even wilder, the treasure is there all along), as it is useful info to add. I'll start on the location walkthroughs right now. Again, feel free to add anything you can think of to the sandbox. --Krusty 23:13, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
Sure, I have a save file where I haven't done anything with the dark brotherhood so if you can give me an exact location of one of the treasure chests I'll test that out soon.RIM 23:16, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
Brilliant. See if you can follow this example and find the tree stump. A test before the DB quest line, a test before purchasing the Torture Room and a test AFTER purchasing the room, but before talking to the victims. That is what we need. Rather tedious, but you will probably solve the exact spawn time for all four chests using this stump. If you don't have the saves, just let me know and I'll do what's needed. --Krusty 23:32, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
In my save file I haven't started the DB yet so I'll test that. I don't want to do the entire DB questline again so if anybody has a save file where they have the torture room but hasn't talked to the victims they can see if the chest is there at that time. That would probably mean that it appears once you talk to the victims. I'll test it as soon as I can.RIM 14:46, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
I added a bit of test results and an important question here. --Krusty 00:56, 23 December 2011 (UTC)


Thanks for the welcome message, much appreciated. I hope my contributions are of some use. :-D The Land 20:52, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

No problem, you're welcome!RIM 23:05, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Email function[edit]

To add the email function, go into "Preferences" and enter the email address you have on your user page into the "Email" box. Then save your changes, and you should have an email from UESP asking you to verify your email address in your inbox. Do that, and the email function should be enabled =) Kitkat TalkContribE-mail 22:14, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Oh, thanks:)RIM 22:16, 30 December 2011 (UTC)


Gold Star.png
You have been given a gold star!

Congratulations on the successful nomination. Welcome to the team! --Krusty 20:57, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks to everybody, but in particular to you for being the first to give your support!RIM 22:58, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
Congratulations on your patrollership, even though I didn't vote. I hope the red exclamation marks won't haunt you in your sleep! Wolok gro-Barok 00:46, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, and I think it's already too late for that....RIM 10:35, 6 January 2012 (UTC)


Since you added it to the table at Enchanting Effects, I think you would be interested in Nephele's question. elliot (talk) 03:20, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know about that:)RIM 10:46, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Telrav NPC Page[edit]

Hi. I was adding a pic to the Telrav page, and then was in the process of expanding on your dialogue and last cleanup when I remembered that I think that NPC pages are not supposed to have spoilers (e.g., giving away that he is not looking for help after all). I think all of that stuff should probably go on the related quest page.

I don't want to just trash your work without comment, though. It is still here: [1]. I see that the related quest page is a bare stub, so maybe I or you or someone can use this to save a bit of time on it? I'm trying to develop a few other pages at the moment, so expanding that page isn't a priority for me right now. If you have any different idea, feel free to revise what I did or discuss with me if you want. Noticed a lot of your good contributions lately. --Jreynolds2Talk Contrib E-mail 14:09, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. The first part of his dialogue should probably be left because it doesn't contain any spoilers and it's all he ever says. The second part where he betrays the player can be removed, or added to another page, if you want. I wouldn't really consider it a spoiler since it's a very minor quest and it's sort of obvious what would happen after escorting him. However, if you or anybody else wants to remove it that's perfectly fine with me but I think the first part should be left where it is. RIM 16:16, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
You are right. The first part of the dialogue looks good there. However minor, the template for npc pages says "no spoilers," and I for one, was surprised when the attack happened the first time I encountered him. Am I the only sucker in the world? :) I think it's a pretty fun quest, and we'll get the rest of the dialogue on the quest page when it gets expanded. --Jreynolds2Talk Contrib E-mail 03:28, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
No problem, and yes you are the only sucker in the world:)RIM 16:25, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
Haha. Maybe. He would be more convincing if it happened to him just a little farther from his camp! That's ok. So far, my combat strength is good enough to make up for a little shortage in the brains department. --Jreynolds2Talk Contrib E-mail 18:14, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
What gave it away for me was the fact that he says his wagon broke down up the road yet he is lying on the ground about 200m away!RIM 22:06, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Patrolling Outside Skryim Space[edit]

Hey RIM. I just noticed that you patrolled the recent edit to Oblivion talk:Console. Just FYI, outside Skyrim space, questions on talk pages should be left unpatrolled unless you can answer the question (see Questions). Of course, in Skyrim space, it's pretty much "patrol anything and everything"...within reason, of course, as mentioned on that same page. Robin Hoodtalk 22:45, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry about that, I wasn't sure if I should have patrolled it but I didn't want to leave it unpatrolled and then have another load of edits to the Skyrim pages overshadow it. Thanks for letting me know. RIM 23:01, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
No worries. Robin Hoodtalk 23:46, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

NPC Dialogue Arngeir, Karita[edit]

I saw that you are interested in collecting NPC dialogue. So, should I/we just put scraps (or long speeches for that matter) here on your talk page?


"So, the Dragonborn appears, at this moment in the turning of the age."

"You must hear the word within yourself before you can project it into a Thu'um."

In response to a question about the player's "destiny":

"We can show you the way, but not your destination."

"You must hear the word within yourself before you can project it into a Thu'um."


"Keep an eye out for wolves when heading to High Hrothgar."

(All from The Way of the Voice quest.)

I have no idea where such things should go, except as parts of detailed walkthroughs, so for now, if it's useful, I'm happy to pass it along to you. Is this sort of thing useful to you, or would you prefer to receive only more complete dialogue or bigger chunks at one time? --JRTalk E-mail 10:45, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the help. You don't have to add pieces of dialogue to my talk page, just add them wherever you see fit on the NPC page. Take a look at this and this for an example of how to add dialogue along with sentences. You can add the dialogue on it's own or build them into sentences, either would be great. Also, if you see any NPC pages that you think could use some dialogue just put their names on my user page, not my talk page, under the Skyrim NPC part at the bottom. RIM 15:57, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
Ah, I got it. Will do. --JRTalk E-mail 18:10, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Deciding What "Matters/Belongs" and What Does Not[edit]

Hi RIM. I want to start by saying that I have a really positive impression of you from your work, from lots of things I've seen you say on the wiki, and from my interactions with you. Now I want to exchange ideas about something. Someone added the note that "Telrav is varlet spelled backwards" to the quest page here: [2]. The wiki is full of information and speculation on trivia such as this, and I think that it is generally considered appropriate to include such things, especially in "Notes" sections. The significance is that varlet is an archaic word meaning "a knavish person; a rascal." I personally think that it deserves a place on the page, perhaps with the additional information that I just provided. I also think it's important to try to avoid discouraging people who contribute, and while your editing summary "Why does that matter??" can be seen as a request for addituional information, it can also be seen, together with your undo of the edit, as a statement: "This does not matter."

Someone with experience and confidence will probably reply to you, or re-insert it with more explanation, but this looks like it was the person's first contribution, and having their attempt to do so rejected in such a manner might just make someone feel that their attempt was unwelcome. You have pointed out the importance of this in your own experience, and very well, here. I am not complaining, here. It is certainly not "wrong" to do what you did. (It's perfectly reasonable to raise the question or even to show that you think it's not useful to include on the page. People can always bring it up again or discuss it (like I'm doing now). And all of us need to make edits sometimes without taking two pages to start long discussions! I'm just not sure not sure it was the best way in this case.

What do you think? If you don't disagree, consider reverting back to include the edit, or if you'd rather that I do it, I will be happy to, and add an few words explaining "why it matters", or at least why it might be interesting to some users. If you disagree with me, maybe we can discuss it more or get some additional opinions. Maybe I'll learn something from it, or you will, or we both will. --JRTalk E-mail 02:53, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

There was a big long discussion about unwanted trivia here. Take a look. Kitkat TalkContribE-mail 03:16, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
Thanks Kitkat. I hadn't seen that discussion before, and it informs the issue. I see several, quite thoughtful, comments from people (including you) who obviously have a good perspective on the wiki (better than mine). And it's fairly clear that you would see this as "unwanted." Still, I see no evidence of a consensus about what kind of information is "unwanted" and where, in fact, it suggests a variety of opinions by a few people. Arngeir's NPC page notes that he's voiced by Christopher Plummer, and this fact is currently featured on the Main Page of the wiki. Is it trivia? (Someone could quite legitimately opine that the whole wiki, the Elder Scrolls games, or computer/video games in general are "trivial.") Is is "unwanted trivia"? By some, and not by others. I haven't seen official guidance that can answer that absolutely, in either the Arngeir issue or this one, and I think that's probably a good thing. I don't see anything wrong with anyone making a decision on an issue that's controversial, and trying to make a change we think is for the better, as RIM has in the edit that germinated my reaction. We shouldn't and, I think really can't, refrain from trying to improve anything until making certain that no one will disagree with us!
What I have seen is policy and guidelines suggesting that when a debate arises, the best thing to do is to engage in a discussion, which is what I'm trying to do here. I think it's an interesting piece of information, and it directly relates to the theme of the quest. I am not personally wed to the notion that the observation about Telrav's name needs to appear on that quest page, but I would prefer it there, and I think that it will "matter" to some people. It's much harder for me to see how large numbers of users would find it horrendously inappropriate or ruinous. I'm not trying to impose my perspective, I'm asking RIM to take another look and tell us/me what he thinks. Maybe he's not sure, which is ok, too. As I have tried to say above, whatever the decision is, I believe that a few extra keystrokes in response to someone's obvious effort to contribute--that are welcoming and acknowledging, even while disagreed with or undone--is a very good idea, and one that is not difficult to ground in clearly-established policies and guidelines. Do I want explanations for every name and word in the game, and long lists of speculation on whether everything in the game may be a reference to everything else? No. Like everything on the wiki, I think that these things will gradually be selected and pruned, and that the cream will generally rise to the top. Should there be tons of energy put into "edit wars"? No. Is there anything wrong with changing something that's been reverted/undone/deleted back and saying that we think it was better? No. Once something goes back and forth a couple of times, however, one side should either decide to let go, or should try to achieve a consensus in some way. Here's my effort to do that. I'll probably just see if there are any more comments here that lend further guidance, and if not, maybe I'll try harder to get some, maybe I'll try inserting the information back where it was with another couple of words that might explain why it at least may matter to some, maybe I'll stick that piece of information on the talk page of the quest (and/or the NPC's NPC page), or maybe I'll forget about it. What would you do if you thought it belonged? --JRTalk E-mail 15:22, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
Sorry I didn't answer this before, I wasn't on the wiki yesterday. When I first saw it I thought it was just another bit of useless trivia, like when somebody wrote that Hirtel was an anagram of Hitler. It was only from reading your comment and looking it up on the internet that I realised what varlet meant. In this case it can be re-added, I don't really mind either way, but the problem is that if we keep adding things like this we may eventually have lots of cases of anagrams and people's name being spelled backwards. The reason this could be re-added is because it describes his character as well. Sorry to whoever added that for not realising. If you want to re-add it that is perfectly fine with me. RIM 11:32, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
Not on the wiki yesterday. And you didn't apply for a leave of absence? I see your point about cluttering-up pages, and actually, I see everyone's points. Since I don't see anything particularly strong, and no clear policy so far, I'll add it back, with a short explanation, and a note on the talk page suggesting further discussion if anyone wants to debate it further. It can always be deleted if the page starts to look crowded. I kind of hope "trivia" remains something that can be decided by discussion and consensus when people have different thoughts. I don't care so much about the particular item. I'm more interested in how these decisions are best made and everyone feeling encouraged to share their thoughts. Thanks. --JRTalk E-mail 16:18, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
I know, I was afraid they might take away my patroller rights! Anyway, in this case Telrav doesn't really do much so it won't clutter the page but if it was on NPC pages that had more to them it could be a bit redundent in some cases. Thanks for letting me know. RIM 18:54, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
I would support some level of trivia, definitely, and clearly on NPC/Quest pages when appropriate, rather than always forcibly on Easter Eggs. I think Easter Eggs should be reserved for those entries that would span multiple pages for whatever reason, or where it's a random thing in the middle of nowhere that would otherwise not have a page of its own. Of course, the perpetual problem with allowing trivia is where to draw the line.
This whole topic has been an area of debate in the past, but as you guys have pointed out above, there really isn't a wide-spread consensus or policy/guideline about it...just kind of unofficial practice. It might be best to bring it up either directly on the Community Portal or perhaps in the relevant topic mentioned above. No offense, RIM, but I don't think most people on the wiki are paying enough attention to your talk page for this discussion to really count. ;) Robin Hoodtalk 21:45, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
What? I thought my talk page was the most viewed page on the wiki! Maybe a discussion on the community potal would be best then. RIM 10:10, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
I find it hard to believe that anyone is not tuned into RIM's talk page. It's where all the best action is. My account is set up to alert me by cell phone if there is any change here. It also activates a loud siren that wakes up everyone in my neighborhood. XD --JRTalk E-mail 03:11, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, never know what kind of crazy things I might do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ RIM 21:04, 19 February 2012 (UTC)


Maybe not all of them, but some of them definitely weren't, like the one that said that the guards would stay there even if you went quietly. I'll revert and double check to only remove the ones I know aren't true. ThuumofReason 18:41, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. It's not a big deal it's just that you removed a lot of points at once and we want to be sure about all of them. RIM 18:51, 17 February 2012 (UTC)


Per your patrolling of the page here, please don't patrol edits made by my doppelgänger unless I ask. It was created as an example for Minor Edits. I can patrol my own accounts edits if necessary. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 21:18, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't know there was any rule against that. RIM 21:20, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
It's not a rule, it's just I was making an edit to show how to patrol new pages to a fellow patroller, who didn't know how to. While he did see it before it was patrolled, it would of been a bit harder to explain without actually having the button their as an example. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 21:23, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
Oh I see, sorry about that, I didn't know and I just thought it was a normal edit. RIM 21:29, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
I think it's in the Patrolling Guidelines, actually (and if not, we should put it there) - generally, we don't patrol edits on another Patroller's/Admin's page unless it's something that's already been answered/taken care of. Similarly, we generally don't patrol discussions where other Patrollers/Admins are actively involved and are obviously continuing to monitor the discussion. Robin Hoodtalk 00:13, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
One more minor thing on patrolling: generally, you shouldn't patrol a question on a talk page if it remains unanswered (e.g., this one). If it's more of a forum-like post, a "me too" post, or something that's unlikely to ever be duplicated/answered, then by all means, patrol it. Robin Hoodtalk 18:33, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
Sorry about that one, I thought KitKat was going to answer because it said edit conflict when I wrote a quick reply and she added the unsigned part. RIM 14:07, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

() Which would be grand if it was a once off, but you marked this as patrolled too, before RH70 answered the question. It's just something to keep in mind - if a question is marked as patrolled, it's less likely to be answered. Kitkat TalkContribE-mail 14:20, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

That's weird, I remember answering that question- I said that most wardrobes and containers were safe in your own house but not to risk it by putting things in containers that you don't own- maybe it just didn't save properly or something? That used to happen a lot a few months ago. RIM 14:26, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
I'm trying to avoid turning this into a lecture, it was some friendly advice. It's just not a good idea to make a habit of marking edits like this as patrolled. Kitkat TalkContribE-mail 14:40, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
What? You're not sounding mean at all:) I understand, just on [[3]] though, wasn't it called the Everflow Ewer, not Everflowing Ewer?
Yep, got it ;) Kitkat TalkContribE-mail 14:48, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, I was pretty sure but I didn't want to mess up again. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯RIM 14:51, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

() A habit that I'm starting to get into now, which I find helps in situations like this, is to not patrol an edit until I can see my response on the page (assuming the edit needs a response, anyway). I won't say I always do it, there are lots of times when I haven't because of years of doing it the other way around, but I'm trying. I find that by doing that, I avoid patrolling things and then forgetting to respond or getting disconnected just at the wrong time, etc.

Anyway, no big deal. It's good when we're all following the same procedures, but we all make mistakes and patrol things we didn't mean to, or didn't notice were problematic. Robin Hoodtalk 21:02, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip and sorry for any trouble. Also, a new account was just created called acnenomore so I'm pretty sure that is spam and should be deleted. 21:04, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
It probably should be, but we've usually taken the policy of not deleting until they do something bad. After all, this could just be a teenager who's happy their acne have finally cleared up! ;) Robin Hoodtalk 21:38, 12 April 2012 (UTC)


Moved to the Community Portal

Are you still wanting names of NPCs who need dialogue added to their page? I have a very long list of names for ya if you so. :) ABCface 00:54, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

I forgot about that! Sure, if you still have them I will add dialogue to them, thanks:) RIM 14:53, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
Be careful what you say, I told you there's a lot! Here goes: FarkasVilkasBrelyna MaryonErandurGolldirIlliaUrag gro-ShubDrevis NelorenEnthirPhinis GestorAncanoPavo AttiusErik the SlayerAhtarAnnekke Crag-JumperDerkeethusMjoll the LionessUthgerd the Unbroken... Don't say I didn't warn ya about the length of the list. :P And you definitely shouldn't feel the need to do any of these, I just added their names to my Desktop Notes over the course of a week or so in between editing/patrolling whenever I could remember to, since you asked about it before. Have fun! ABCface 19:18, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for that, I'll get started now! RIM 08:25, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
Ok I have the last four done, only about 14 more to go:)RIM 09:21, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
Is the dialogue in the CK anywhere or can it only be found in-game, I've added some dialogue but it's such a pain reloading save after save on the PS3. The Silencer has spoken 14:16, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

() It's in the CK, usually under a quest tag. Simple copy-paste once you've found it. Vely►Talk►Email 15:31, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Or, for PS3 users without CK access the CSList was set up just for people like you! (And me for the matter!) --kiz talkemail 15:40, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
Yeah you can use that to add dialogue. Sorry you had to get it from the game itself, that must have been annoying! I think we should come up with a way to add dialogue for people like Ulfric, Gen. Tullius and Farkas who have hundreds of lines. Maybe have it written quest by quest? The problem is that few people if any had that much dialogue in Oblivion. Thanks for the help:) RIM 16:33, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
The CSlist yeah... Thanks? (actually it looks useful), looking at it though, it seems that NPCs without unique voice acting don't have dialogue listed eg Valdr, while others, eg Uthgerd, do, is it there or am I blind? The Silencer has spoken 16:45, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
The CSList is a minefield, it should all be there. Its finding it, some of it may be on quest stages on on quest flags. It might be on the NPC record or on the Base NPC record. It depends :/ The CSList, while great, isn't user friendly in the slightest! --kiz talkemail 17:31, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
^Ain't that the truth! I've been trying to learn more about using the CSList for a little while now, and while I know a lot more than I did a few weeks ago, most of it still confuses the heck out of me. :)
Anyway, RIM, if you'd like me to keep adding names to my list as I go, I can give ya another list later. I'm on here all the time anyway, and it's no trouble to add names to my notes in between editing/patrolling. Just let me know. ABCface 19:04, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
Wow, I've never heard of the CSList. I'm on the 360, so I too have been gathering dialogue the old-fashioned way. I'm currently working on Paarthurnax, and judging by his insane amount of dialogue getting it via 360 would've taken about a week. • JATalk 20:06, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

() It will be impossible to have all dialogue on some NPCs pages, look at Arngeir on the CS[4]. The Silencer has spoken 23:29, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Which brings up the question on how we handle dialogue. If we wanted to do some nested collapsible tables/ShowHide system, that'd be great, except that every major NPC page would be gigantic when you went to edit it. On the other hand, we can't completely ignore it - for example, Paarthurnax's dialogue (look here) provides some critical insights on the Dragon Language. And what about conversations between two NPCs? Do we list it on one page and link to it on the other, duplicate the information, have a main article for conversations that we link to, or do we even mention it at all? I ran into a similar problem with the dialogue on Redguard (look at N'Gasta - that's just from the first time you meet him). How do we handle this? • JATalk 00:32, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
Perhaps we make an exception, a separate page for their massive amount of dialogue, with a few pertinant bits in the article. Haven't a clue what to do about two NPC conversations with each other. The Silencer has spoken 00:39, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
At this point, there’s no need to be too worried about how to handle layout and massive amounts of dialogue. The vip NPC method (as seen on OB pages like Modryn Oreyn and Martin) works well with SR NPCs too. I’ve written quite a few complete SR NPC pages, e.g. Grelod and Ahlam, works okay for now. Of course, some dialogue will be shared, but it will always be like that and there’s no real need for too many tranclusions and/or links. The conversations is where the true personality of the NPCs are hidden, so it’s good to go anywhere. --Krusty 05:48, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
Maybe we should have a page for npc pages that need dialogue? Alphabet's list would help there. So basically if people see an npc page with little or no dialogue they could just add the name to the list on the page. I tried this with my user page but nobody noticed. Or we could have a Skyrim version of the oblivion npc redesign project? RIM 14:08, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
TBH, I don't like having all of the dialogue as a blob of half-italicized paragraphs - I find my eyes glaze over just looking at it. The Silencer is right, perhaps a Dialogue subpage would work best. Perhaps there could be a Skyrim:NPC Conversations article? Or we could just duplicate the text on both NPC pages - I'm fine with either one.
As for a list of NPCs that need dialogue, I think that's practically every NPC in the game. Most of them have only one or two lines of unique dialogue. Also, how do we handle quest-specific dialogue? Does it go on the quest page (under a /Dialogue subpage) or does it remain on the NPC page? Or both? Another factor in this is the significance of their dialogue. For instance, Paarthurnax's dialogue is very interesting for those trying to learn more about the Dragon language, and Mjoll the Lioness's dialogue is interesting because of her comments for each of the locations visited. Many NPCs, on the other hand, don't have as interesting quest-specific dialogue. • JATalk 14:34, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
And another quick question: do we record all dialogue that's in the game files, or only the dialogue that is found in game? Having gone through Paarthurnax, Odahviing, and Alduin (I was looking up Dragon dialogue) there's no way in hell I'm going back and checking if they say every single line of dialogue found in the game files. • JATalk 14:38, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
I don't mean right now, maybe in a while. Just add any dialogue you can that you feel is important, if we listed every single line of dialogue it would take ages to write and read. As for the quest dialogue I think that a few lines should be added to the NPC if possible withouut overdoing it. For example, look at this page. RIM 14:48, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
I think all dialogue that is said (bar perhaps hellos and goodbyes) in game is note-worthy. Dialogue should be handled how the OB pages were, some used italics in sentences but there are also some (especially VIPs check Sheogorath for an example) that used tables to great effect as well! I don't see the need for a subpage solely for dialogue. --kiz talkemail 14:52, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

() (edit conflict) Check out Ysolda's page for a split between her dialogue, the sections that reveal a little about her and are always available I incorperated, but the quest specific for ANTR went in a table because only a little gets revealed on one playthrough. She doesn't have anywhere near as much dialogue as some others, but besides genereic Hello. and such thats all her dialogue. It's a small example of what can be done, but like Martins page, I think we can shove a lot of quest specific dialogue into separate sections on for example Ulfric and Parthunax, but perhaps in hidden tables. The Silencer has spoken 14:55, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Maybe we should move this to the community portal or admin noticeboard to see what others think? I like Ysolda's page:) RIM 14:59, 8 April 2012 (UTC)


Sorry for causing your talk page to be taken over! Yeah, the list I gave you was actually MUCH shorter than it could have been. I originally had 30+ names before the first list was deleted, then stopped adding names to the second/new list because I thought you would think it was too much, haha. I'm glad to see a bunch of people are joining in on this task though. :) ABCface 17:25, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

No problem, thanks for the names too, hopefully other people will add to NPC pages. Buena suerte con el bebé, did I say that right? Anyway thanks again. RIM 17:57, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, if you'd still like me to give ya names, I can, but I think there's more without dialogue than there are with dialogue so I'm not sure if there would be much point (that is, unless all these people have been adding dialogue like crazy). And yeah, you said that right, though I'm not sure of the spelling/accents, since I've never written it much. :) And thanks! He never stops eating, other than that, it's pretty awesome all around. :) ABCface 23:28, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
I suppose you're right about the dialogue, there wouldn't really be any point in giving me the list of names of of everybody in Skyrim minus 30 or so NPCs. Thanks for the help in any case. RIM 09:41, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

special contract[edit]

Non, je n'avais meme pas visité Faillaise quand cela m'est arrivé. S'il y'a une quete en rapport j'aimerais le savoir...

Il n'ya pas de quête qui lui est liée, donc je ne sais pas vraiment ce qui s'est passé pour être honnête, peut-être un certain genre de faute dans le jeu?RIM 12:14, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
Peux-tu me donner les môts exactes du contrat? Je vais les chercher dans les fichiers français pour que je puisse l'investiguer en anglais et, j'espère, déterminer ce qui se passe. (Et excusez mon français aussi, ça fait longtemps!) Robin Hoodtalk 20:40, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Serana spell[edit]

Regarding this edit, in Serana's NPC record on CSList, she is listed to have the Drain Life spell, which has different stats than the regular Vampiric Drain spells. Though they're similar, they're not quite the same, so I'm not sure about simply saying she has Vampiric Drain. Though perhaps adding something like "her own unique version of..." before it would work? What do you think? ABCface 23:35, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

All NPC vampire use that spell. There are afew different versions of it with different strengths. on the Vampire page we called it "Drain Life" but linked it to "Vampiric Drain". — Kimi the Elf (talk | contribs) 23:40, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
Okay, thanks for clarifying this. I think it would be better to have it the same way as on the Vampire page then, with the label saying Drain Life and the link to Vampiric Drain. I'll go ahead and make the change, please feel free to let me know if that's not really wanted though! ABCface 23:54, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
Sorry about that, I just figured it was a regular vampiric drain spell but just a bit different so it would be better than creating a new page for one slightly different spell. Either option is fine with me. RIM 19:25, 7 August 2012 (UTC)