User talk:Quindraco

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Welcome![edit]

Lowercase Redirects[edit]

Please stop creating these, every one of them is going to be deleted. We have a policy where every page is fully capitalised, except where it comes directly from the game (e.g. book titles). The Uskp will always be USKP, Vampire lord will always be Vampire Lord. If you try to make a link and it is red, it is because you have done it wrong, not because the page has yet to be created. Additionally, your Uskp redirect was made to go to another redirect, which results in a broken link anyway, as redirects only work once. Anyone clicking that link would have found themselves on the USKP redirect and not on the Unofficial Patch page. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 18:09, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Clearly you never read this message. Stop making pages for deletion. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 19:41, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Correct, I did not. I can't control what's deleted and what isn't, but "Vampire lord" not working leads to this not working: [[sr:vampire lord|some other text]], which looks like a pretty clear bug: why make the typer have to capitalize text the reader will never see? I don't remember the USKP redirect in detail, so I can't verify your claim about it not working, much less fix it, but I'm tired of needing to capitalize text just so the wiki code will work. If there's a style policy that users should always see capitalized text, that's fine, but it hardly implies whether or not an uncapitalized link should work.Quindraco (talk) 20:00, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Frankly you aren't making sense there. There is a style and a policy, all page titles must be capitalised, only the first letter is automatically capitalised by the software, the others must be done by hand. This is not a bug, it is intentional. Your making of lowercase redirects is only making work for the person who marks it for deletion and the admin that deletes it. They will not remain for long, every one you have created has either been marked for deletion or deleted, and this will continue to be the case until you stop. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 20:10, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
We're a little more conservative than Wikipedia when it comes to redirects, probably mostly due to our smaller user base and only having two current bots on the site. We therefore generally expect editors to use the proper casing for any new links rather than creating redirects for all common casing variants and then having to maintain all those redirects every time a page moves. Having to hit the Shift key a couple of times isn't usually a big deal for most editors. Granted, in the case where you want [[sr:Vampire Lord|vampire lord]], it's more typing than just [[sr:vampire lord|]], but again, I wouldn't expect it to be a big issue in the grand scheme of things, given the ratio of plain text to link text. This also avoids having a clutter of lower-case redirects in search results and the like (e.g., Vampire lord, Vampire Lord). Robin Hood  (talk) 22:55, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Another reminder not to create these kinds of redirects, as you made one just a few minutes ago. Please avoid making redirects unless they are actually different from the page name and would aid searches. And even then, it's a good idea to think twice before creating one and make sure you add the right category. For example, Category:Redirects from Alternate Names. —Dillonn241 (talk) 13:35, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Template Changes[edit]

Good job on some of the template changes you've been doing, but I do have a few questions/comments.

First, can I ask why you're using the Trim template on named parameters, which will automatically be trimmed anyway? As far as I can see, the only purpose it would serve for a named parameter is to convert asterisks into bullets, which is much cheaper to just implement directly in the template as {{#if:1|{{{desc|}}}}}, to use {{SR Spell}} as an example.

On a related note, the {{#ifeq:{{{x|}}}|{{{x}}}|...}} construct isn't tremendously common around here. With only a few exceptions, blank parameters and unspecified paramters are usually treated as equal on UESP, so we normally just use {{#if:{{{x|}}}|...}}. If there's some other benefit to the first one, I'd be curious to hear about it. Thanks! Robin Hood  (talk) 20:03, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

  1. Trim: When leaving out the final two columns, which is why I reworked the template in the first place - I wanted to make a spell table without including details or where to get the spells - I was having formatting problems. The skillxp column was getting an extra paragraph tag due to newlines in the template, forcing the data in the cell up to the top of the cell. I made trim to try and deal with it since I couldn't come up with a way to make the template to work properly with bulleted lists in the cells without introducing mandatory newlines when absent. If you have a way to do that, I'd love to see it (and I will try your suggestion out in the near future).
  2. The point of ifeq vs if is what you do when the variable is not passed in: the latter, which you are used to, cannot distinguish present but empty from absent. The ifeq syntax lets you distinguish, which let me change the template without violating its initial semantics: that is, you should be able to pass in an empty variable to get an empty cell, but I wanted to introduce leaving a variable out to leave a cell out. That's what the ifeq is for.Quindraco (talk) 19:54, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Trim wouldn't have solved those issues in a reliable way. Parsing a command is significantly less time-consuming than parsing an entirely new template, so whenever possible, it's better design to not call a template from within a template if it can reasonably be avoided. The usual solution for what you were trying to do is to put the #if condition at the end of the previous line. Then, if you're doing table formatting, add a leading <nowiki/> as the first thing in the condition and put the pipe (or whatever) on a new line. You can see the school parameter of {{SR Spell}} for an example of that.
As indicated in my initial message, I'm familiar with the purpose of your #ifeq construct vs. our normal #if construct. Given that most of the rest of the site doesn't use that particular protocol, however, it would likely be confusing for some users. Our typical choice is to introduce "showXXX" or "hideXXX" parameters instead. The reason for that is what I mentioned in my undo notes on SR Spell: it helps ensure that accidents don't happen, and that the showing or hiding was deliberate. (Edit: Another major factor is that we have parameter inheritance available, so we can set the show/hide value once on the parent page and all template calls thereafter respect the setting without having to specify it.)
I appreciate your enthusiasm, and you're obviously a skilled templater, but there are a lot of things that are done a particular way on this wiki that may not match other wikis like Wikipedia. We often do things a certain way because it's easier on the servers, easier for our users to understand, or easier for patrollers/admins/bots to maintain. Internal improvements are absolutely fine, but before you spend a lot of time on changes that affect the end-user of the template, I would suggest posting to the template talk page or the Community Portal first, just to make sure that everyone's okay with it. Unlike Wikipedia and other large wikis, this is a fairly small community, so it's usually not hard to get feedback and consensus on any changes. Thanks! Robin Hood  (talk) 22:34, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Interwiki Edits[edit]

Just for future reference, both myself and Daveh have database access and can edit the interwiki table as needed (and I did update the CKWiki entry, though it's not showing yet due to caching). We're both fairly active and can usually respond to requests in 24 hours or less. That said, there are good reasons to template these things as well, so I've left that in place too. Feel free to use either in the future, whichever's your preference. Robin Hood  (talk) 20:12, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

USKP[edit]

Hi there. I know the USKP sits in a rarefied position of being almost a must-use for those who can, it is not, as it says in its name, official. As such its changes are only noted on our pages, not the foremost displayed figures or texts. There are many people who do not use it all, even on PC, not to mention the other consoles that have no access to it. Our pages are also first and foremost, a documentation of the game, not any mods that people may or may not use. Therefore I've undone all your changes to the weapons page. The weapons are also listed by damage first and weight second; alphabetically would be third.

Additionally many of your examples on others include USKP figures, making complicated explanations and comparisons even more complicated. Please use only in-game figures for these explanations as overly-complicated notes are not helpful, they need to readable for our users to quickly discern what offers the best value/method of achieving their personal goals. USKP figures can be a secondary note if they change something significantly (eg making a weapon the best one to use where it wasn't before). Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 17:03, 30 May 2018 (UTC)