User talk:Legoless/Arc 2014

This is an archive of previous comments on my talk page. Please do not post a message here - use this link to go to the active page instead.

My page

I see you removed the minimal data about ESO from my page. Am I not allowed to mention that I am part of the beta (and I just missed that part of the NDA), or did you think that it was a secret that there have already been at least 2 beta sessions? (It's not-the ESO website has had news pages about some.) I also intend to add which races I intend to be when it comes out (since those are also confirmed) so please don't remove that when I post it.— Unsigned comment by Jnutter819 (talk • contribs) at 23:18 on 14 January 2014 (GMT)

You missed that part of the NDA: "Confidential Information includes, but is not limited to, all information relating to the Beta Trial, Your selection as a Beta Trial participant". You are not allowed to mention that you are in the beta. Saying you want to be a specific race when it goes live would be fine. Saying you want to be that race because they were awesome when you tried them out in the beta would not be. :) Jeancey (talk) 23:35, 14 January 2014 (GMT)

Yep. If you're unsure about something specific, it'd be better to email an administrator than to discuss it on the wiki, for obvious reasons. —Legoless (talk) 01:21, 15 January 2014 (GMT)

Right, sorry.--Jnutter819 (talk) 02:22, 15 January 2014 (GMT)

E-mail

Please check it for coolness! :) --Krusty (talk) 15:40, 16 January 2014 (GMT)

Lore:Movarth Piquine

Didn't Morvath get a distinct fixed look with the advent of Dawnguard, different to how he appears in vanilla Skyrim? Since DG is the more up to date than vanilla, it would suggest his race and look is now no longer randomized. --Jimeee (talk) 00:44, 31 January 2014 (GMT)

The Skyrim article needs to be updated it seems. Thanks for that. —Legoless (talk) 01:12, 31 January 2014 (GMT)

Direnni Tower

It isn't fan art. Its from Elder Scrolls Online, The NDA has lifted so its taken directly from that game. I know because I took the picture myself — Unsigned comment by NovaNovik (talk • contribs) at 13:53 on 16 February 2014 (GMT)

Hmm. In that case, it might be worth adding to the lore page, but the Daggerfall image should take precedence until a higher quality image can be taken. —Legoless (talk) 13:58, 16 February 2014 (GMT)

Arananga?

I'm curious where this location name came from? I can't find anything with that name, or anything similar to that name in any of the book texts, zone maps, map files, NPC names, quest names or item names... Do you know for sure that it appears in the game? Jeancey (talk) 23:00, 19 February 2014 (GMT)

It's featured in the new blacksmithing video. —Legoless (talk) 23:01, 19 February 2014 (GMT)

Ah, kk. I haven't watched it yet. Jeancey (talk) 23:02, 19 February 2014 (GMT)

ESO EU Guild

Hey there, was just wondering whether the official UESP guild on the EU megaserver had come to fruition yet, or otherwise what the plans for one are. Thanks! --Enodoc (talk) 08:59, 3 April 2014 (GMT)

I was hoping Dave would set one up, but that doesn't appear to be the case. The guild features were down for maintainance for a while as well, so I dunno if an EU guild can even be created at the moment. I'm a little concerned that the name might be taken if we leave it much longer. —Legoless (talk) 17:49, 3 April 2014 (GMT)

I don't think it's likely for Dave to do it, as he would need to download the whole EU client, start a new character, and then create a guild, all on a server he wouldn't normally be playing on. I think it's down to us EU players to create one for ourselves. I think Guild features are back so I'd say, go for it as soon as possible. --Enodoc (talk) 17:53, 3 April 2014 (GMT)

Right. I guess I'll create it, although I'm unlikely to be very active with the guild so perhaps it would be a bad idea. Does founding a guild come with any kind of permanent responsibilities? —Legoless (talk) 18:00, 3 April 2014 (GMT)

Discussed in IRC. The guild is up. —Legoless (talk) 22:28, 3 April 2014 (GMT)

Nice. I tried to PM you just now but I guess you were away. I'll try and catch up with you tomorrow to join :) --Enodoc (talk) 23:06, 3 April 2014 (GMT)

Missed you again, sorry. Tomorrow hopefully? —Legoless (talk) 23:57, 4 April 2014 (GMT)

Still haven't managed to catch you :P I'll keep trying, my account is @Enodoc if you want to try messaging me sometime as well. I'm aiming to be on most evenings. --Enodoc (talk) 11:57, 9 April 2014 (GMT)

My subscription isn't set up yet, so I currently don't have access to the game. With your username I should be able to add you to the guild. —Legoless (talk) 18:23, 9 April 2014 (GMT)

Ah right, that makes sense. Let me know when you're all set up! @Enodoc Enodoc (talk) 20:44, 9 April 2014 (GMT) 20:43, 9 April 2014 (GMT)

I tried sending a message too, but researching on what is going on and reading this, I understand what's happening. ^-^;; My username: @ylc0304 so pretty much my username here on UESP. Only lower case, though, which was also meant to be with my username here, but apparently the first letter becomes upper case here. Ylc0304 (talk) 21:26, 9 April 2014 (GMT)

Both of you have been invited. —Legoless (talk) 16:57, 12 April 2014 (GMT)

Thank you. ^-^ Ylc0304 (talk) 20:10, 13 April 2014 (GMT)

ESO images

Hey there, just wanted to say that in the Keybindings menu you can bind a key to "UI On/Off" in the User Interface section. This will allow you to remove the crosshairs before you take a screenshot. It also knocks out most other UI elements like the compass, tracker and chatbox (but not the floating in-world markers for followers, group members, and quests). --Enodoc (talk) 17:16, 13 April 2014 (GMT)

Thanks for that, I went looking and couldn't find the option. —Legoless (talk) 17:34, 13 April 2014 (GMT)

Unneeded Overhead Image Of The Imperial Reserve

Why is an overhead image unneeded? It thought it would be useful because it properly identifies he subject in question (IE the Imperial Reserve) and not some location in the Imperial Reserve. DG^{Any Questions?} 09:14, 16 April 2014 (GMT)

The Imperial Reserve extends across multiple regions and has no set borders, which makes it impossible to take any kind of accurate 'overhead image'. I also don't see why the image would have to be overhead, which would look pretty weird. An image of a camp in the area is as accurate a representation as any. —Legoless (talk) 13:01, 16 April 2014 (GMT)

The imperial Reserve does have a set border -- it is just never revealed in-game where it ends. DG^{Any Questions?} 18:59, 16 April 2014 (GMT)

If there is no clear border for the area, there might as well not be one for our photographers. If someone wants to take an overview shot of the general area (not overhead), that'd be alright, but that specific request is impossible to fulfill. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 19:15, 16 April 2014 (GMT)

Emphasis

Why does it need emphasis. I don't see a reason why every subpart of a realm needs to be emphasized so readily. I think simply having it capitalized accomplishes the emphasis just fine. Jeancey (talk) 21:14, 20 April 2014 (GMT)

The emphasised words are core subjects of the page. By rights they should probably have distinct headers, but prose works better here I think. That page is the definitive article for both the Shade Perilous and the Ebonmere, and if someone follows those terms and just finds an unmarked wall of text, they're gonna have to read through the whole thing to find the intended topic. A similar situation exists here. —Legoless (talk) 21:23, 20 April 2014 (GMT)

All or all of

I noticed you reverted my edit to one of the Skyrim userboxes with the note "better grammar this way". I looked this up before making the edit and found that of should only be used in front of pronouns or at least not so much as to make a sentence sound clunky. Taking out the of in the sentence I edited made it match with the almost identical Oblivion userbox. I won't change anything, but if you want to keep the of, at least change the other two (Oblivion achievements and Skyrim trophies). --Vindëgaer (talk) 02:45, 21 April 2014 (GMT)

Welcome to one of the many "joys" of the English language! :) Some people give rules for "all of" vs. "all", while others say it's optional and entirely up to the speaker. See the differences, for example, betweeen [1], [2], and [3]. I wouldn't be surprised if there are national variations as well. Generally speaking, though, "all of" is used when there are a specific number of things and you're referring to every last one of them (as is the case in the Achievements Userbox). When you're talking about something where the number isn't really all that specific, like "all the people I know" or "all the money in the world", then you usually drop the "of". – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 04:54, 21 April 2014 (GMT)

Yep. Both are correct in this context, but the extra "of" is preferable. I don't find it ponderous at all. —Legoless (talk) 14:42, 21 April 2014 (GMT)

online to ESO

Should I go through and change the onlines to ESO? Lorenut (talk) 19:33, 21 May 2014 (GMT)

That would be great, yeah. —Legoless (talk) 19:36, 21 May 2014 (GMT)

Thanks for answering so fast I'll get right on that.Lorenut (talk) 19:38, 21 May 2014 (GMT)

user box

What is the code for the user box to see how many edits I made and the code for how long I've been on the site? Lorenut (talk) 20:14, 21 May 2014 (GMT)

See this. —Legoless (talk) 20:21, 21 May 2014 (GMT)

Guild

Howdy there! Any chance I could get an invite to the ESO guild on EU? :) Userid is "dimecadmium". DimeCadmium (talk) 17:22, 13 June 2014 (GMT)

Sure, I'll send you an invite when I'm next online. "@dimecadmium", right? —Legoless (talk) 17:26, 13 June 2014 (GMT)

Well, technically the @ isn't part of the userid... but yes. :) Thanks DimeCadmium (talk) 17:28, 13 June 2014 (GMT)

Email

First off, thank you for closing my nomination. Secondly, I shot you an email but apparently you didn't receive it? I got your email, however. ~ Ad intellige ^(talk) 16:59, 14 June 2014 (GMT)

Weird, I have the wiki's email function enabled. —Legoless (talk) 17:02, 14 June 2014 (GMT)

I just sent you a test e-mail via the wiki to see if you receive it. Of course, it occurs to me now, there's no reason you couldn't have done the same. Sorry if it's redundant. :) – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 18:13, 14 June 2014 (GMT)

I got yours, so that's not the issue. —Legoless (talk) 18:18, 14 June 2014 (GMT)

Must be me then. I sent a test just in case. ~ Ad intellige ^(talk) 19:10, 14 June 2014 (GMT)

Got nothing that time. —Legoless (talk) 19:31, 14 June 2014 (GMT)

(←) Very strange. My preferences are set up correctly and I can receive emails just fine. Perhaps it ended up in your spam or equivalent? ~ Ad intellige ^(talk) 19:32, 14 June 2014 (GMT)

Nope. Maybe you could try to email someone else? —Legoless (talk) 19:39, 14 June 2014 (GMT)

I'll try to email RobinHood. I can also try just replying to yours rather than going through the wiki. ~ Ad intellige ^(talk) 19:40, 14 June 2014 (GMT)

That will do for the future, but it's kind of an issue if the wiki's email function isn't working. —Legoless (talk) 19:43, 14 June 2014 (GMT)

Is there a special permission needed for it that could be messed up? ~ Ad intellige ^(talk) 19:44, 14 June 2014 (GMT)

If you tried to send to me, I didn't get it either. I looked in the database and at least at a quick glance, everything there looks okay: you have an e-mail address and it's verified. As far as I know, those are the only requirements (and if they weren't, you'd get a message saying that you weren't allowed to e-mail the person anyway). It may be that spam checkers are filtering out your address for some reason or another. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 20:31, 14 June 2014 (GMT)

Very strange then. Let me try with an alternate email. ~ Ad intellige ^(talk) 20:37, 14 June 2014 (GMT)

(←) I can see you changed addresses, but if you sent to me, I still didn't get anything. Try a different provider, if you have access to one, and see if that does anything. (Or, if you just sent an e-mail to Legoless, ignore this until he responds.) – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 21:19, 14 June 2014 (GMT)

I just sent it to you. ~ Ad intellige ^(talk) 22:01, 14 June 2014 (GMT)

Nothing. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 22:13, 14 June 2014 (GMT)

Just replied to your original email RobinHood, so maybe it is just my email. ~ Ad intellige ^(talk) 00:21, 15 June 2014 (GMT)

Got that. It could be that spam filters are rejecting the e-mails because they don't originate from your ISP. Not sure why that would apply to your ISP and not others, though. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 01:00, 15 June 2014 (GMT)

noinclude wraps on Lore:

Hey there (again)! Is there any particular reason the articles on the Lore namespace are wrapped wholly in noinclude? Wondering if this is "policy"/etc. ~DimeCadmium...!!1! 19:44, 16 June 2014 (GMT)

Oftentimes, we want to "transclude" part of an article to another page. Make a portion of it appear on another page, without copying and pasting (which makes it easier to maintain). The noinclude tags stop unwanted content from being transcluded. Insignificant Revisions^{Threats•Evidence} 19:48, 16 June 2014 (GMT)

Yeah no, I know what it does, I just don't get why it's on articles with nothing outside the noincludes. :p ~DimeCadmium...!!1! 19:50, 16 June 2014 (GMT)

I don't see any reason why that should happen. Can you point to an example? Insignificant Revisions^{Threats•Evidence} 19:58, 16 June 2014 (GMT)

(edit conflict) Any articles like that would be in error. I assume you looked at Morvunskar, which doesn't do this. If you look just after the second image insertion the noinclude is closed, then after the text another is opened to stop the references section transcluding. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 19:59, 16 June 2014 (GMT)

(edit conflict) There's never nothing outside the noincludes. It's usually used to keep templates such as {{Trail}} off list pages (like Lore:Places A). And like Minor Edits said, it means we don't have to use duplicate content, which is always bad. —Legoless (talk) 20:01, 16 June 2014 (GMT)

(←) Ahhhh, I missed that it stopped and started again in Morvunskar. That makes it more reasonable then :P ~DimeCadmium...!!1! 20:07, 16 June 2014 (GMT)

Interactive Map books

Hi. I'm doing a bit of work on the Interactive Map books, and one thing I think would help is a new field in the "Book Summary" template. Something like "Source" and this would only be used for official texts in the lore namespace that are not in-game. It would work similarly as the "Seen In" filed we already use for in-game book.

This field, however, could but used to mention that the text come from the official website (like the Interactive Map) or the Loremaster's Archive. We don't even need to have the link as an external link to the official site, as (for the map texts at least) we will have an overview page like the sandbox i'm working on. The source field in the infobox could display "Zenimax Interactive Map" or "Loremaster's Archive". Thoughts? I didn't want to change the book template as it makes little sense to me. --Jimeee (talk) 13:38, 18 June 2014 (GMT)

That sounds like a great idea to me. I really like the overview page so far. You could bring it up on the template's talk page if you wanna make sure no one has any objections, but I say go for it. —Legoless (talk) 13:43, 18 June 2014 (GMT)

Sounds good. Another question - I'm trying to faithfully re-create the interactive map texts just as they look on the Zenimax site, so I'm including the images, etc. One thing I'm using to tweak the layouts is some hardcoded css for a div. It works in my sandbox, but it's generally not ideal as css should be in a css file. Would it be possible for someone who has access to add two simple classes to the css file so that we don't have repeating css in the pages themselves? This CSS should not affect any other part of the site. --Jimeee (talk) 13:52, 18 June 2014 (GMT)

That goes here, I think. You might want to ask on the admin noticeboard, since I'm not sure how it works. —Legoless (talk) 14:09, 18 June 2014 (GMT)

Yep, that's the place. I'm quite familiar with CSS, so I can provide the exact format the CSS needs to be in. If you agree, can you perhaps add it to the file? Below is literally be all you would need to add to the bottom of the file for it to work. I can explain exactly what it does if you would like:

/* CSS for styling and layout on Zenimax Interactive Map texts */

div.esomaptext {

padding:15px 20px 10px 0;

background:#EBE0C8;

border-radius:5px;

}

hr.clearboth {

border:1px solid #EBE0C8;

clear:both;

}

--Jimeee (talk) 14:22, 18 June 2014 (GMT)

I've added the code. —Legoless (talk) 14:41, 18 June 2014 (GMT)

Great. It works now, thanks. The width will need to be tweaked manually on a case-by-case, but that's fine. --Jimeee (talk) 14:45, 18 June 2014 (GMT)

Hey again. I have noticed a minor visual bug on Chrome and my tablet (a thin visible border). Easy fix: could you please add background-color: #EBE0C8; under the hr.clearboth { you added yesterday? Thanks!--Jimeee (talk) 10:42, 19 June 2014 (GMT)

Done. —Legoless (talk) 13:41, 19 June 2014 (GMT)

Re: Gideon

Howdy. I've responded to your recent (relatively speaking) inquiry on my talk page, and thought you'd like to know (because it's been a couple weeks and whatnot). :)
If I can be of any further help, let me know. -- Croaker (talk) 05:11, 26 June 2014 (GMT)

Stormhold

Why is the template 'of no use' in Stormhold? Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 02:58, 14 July 2014 (GMT)

Just posted a message here. It's designed for the main namespaces, for bug reporting and layout. —Legoless (talk) 02:59, 14 July 2014 (GMT)

Question about lore note format

Hi. The current format of an "appeared in" mention under the "Notes" section on lore pages is:

• PAGENAME appeared in TES II: Daggerfall, TES IV: Oblivion, and TES V: Skyrim.

If an infobox exists on the page with the "appears in" field, then I assume there is no need to repeat the info in the Notes section? Some pages have both.

The other question was, why do pages like Morrowind:Nerevarine and Skyrim:Dovahkiin exist? They are not really game-specific and essentially lore pages. Would it make sense to either merge or redirect them to the Lore:Hero page? I was about to work on a Lore:Hero sandbox, but I thought I'd ask about this first. --Jimeee (talk) 15:55, 16 July 2014 (GMT)

If a page has an infobox, the note isn't necessary. This usedn't to be the case, which is why some pages still have both. I proposed the Skyrim page for deletion when it was created, but the argument at the time was that people kept linking to it and it's better to have a page there instead of a redlink. The Nerevarine page was originally blanked after its creation, but was converted to a redirect and then later restored for some reason. It too faced deletion when it was created. Personally I don't think either of them are suited for gamespace, so either a redirect to lore and/or a complete game-specific rewrite would do nicely. —Legoless (talk) 16:05, 16 July 2014 (GMT)

Did you seriously just say "usedn't"? I hereby revoke your patroller rights. Yes, technically it's a word, but to quote Wiktionary: "nonstandard, dated, UK". You only qualify for the last part...though I suppose anybody who edits a wiki long enough also qualifies for the first. :P – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 18:12, 16 July 2014 (GMT)

My spellchecker didn't complain. :( —Legoless (talk) 18:18, 16 July 2014 (GMT)

Needs image

The issue isn't really that it doesn't get added, it's that 90% of the pages need an image, so there really isn't a reason to have the tag on that one, and none of the others. There really only should be a tag if there are less than 100 that still need images. The general assumption with the new game is that they all need images. Having the tag on the one page really isn't useful in any way. Jeancey (talk) 22:24, 16 July 2014 (GMT)

Actually, you'll find that the ESO place and quest pages include the tag. The NPC pages don't, but most are marked as blank instead. I'm not sure why {{Online NPC Summary}} doesn't automatically add the tag like {{NPC Summary}}, but I assume it wasn't a purposefully excluded feature. I've requested an image of Uncle Leo for the lore page, so I made sure to add the tag manually to the ESO page as well. It does no harm, and there's no reason to remove it. —Legoless (talk) 22:35, 16 July 2014 (GMT)

Lore:Goblin

I've been trying to do a page for goblins, with the help of Dominus. He thinks its okay enough to go trough, but said I should ask for a second opinion. If you don't mind could you look here and give me a second opinion please?--Ashendant (talk) 18:53, 27 July 2014 (GMT)

Yeah it looks fine, I can give it a run-through when it's published. Nice work. —Legoless (talk) 23:45, 27 July 2014 (GMT)

NPC vs Creature

I was wondering if we ever came up with an official designation for this? The one I've been using is humanoid with multiple genders, which covers everything we have already. Right now, Golden Saints have a creature category, and all other golden saints are marked as creatures, and they have no racial category. Is there another way we can define NPCs vs Creatures that would include Golden Saints but exclude other things which aren't NPCs, like Ogres? Jeancey (talk) 21:21, 7 August 2014 (GMT)

I actually just started a discussion about it. Check it out here and see what you think. —Legoless (talk) 21:28, 7 August 2014 (GMT)

First Time Players Revert

I noticed that you said in your edit summary that it was a 3rd party mod that fixed this. According to the Notes section on Faendal's page, it was fixed by USKP 1.2.6. Just thought I'd bring it to your attention! •WoahBro^►talk 17:41, 8 August 2014 (GMT)

On second thought, are we considering USKP a 3rd party fix? That might be something nice to know since it's one of the only mods we actually cover. •WoahBro^►talk 17:43, 8 August 2014 (GMT)

Yeah, it's unofficial. —Legoless (talk) 18:10, 8 August 2014 (GMT)

If it can be done in the base game, it should be documented. If the exploit's no longer available with the USKP, though, we may want to note that to save people some aggravation when they go looking for something that doesn't exist for them. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 18:33, 8 August 2014 (GMT)

ESO questions

Do they clarify whether General Balreth fought in the 1E 416 Battle of Red Mountain, or the battle circa 1E 700?

During the quest where you meet him and other Chimer, is there a tint on the screen? Are the Chimer being seen through some sort of filter? How to best describe them on their lore page is still unsettled.

Also, some anon went through the Balreth page and said that the Chimer were fighting the Nedes; does that seem right to you? I know the Nords are essentially just a group of Nedes, but it strikes me as off. Shouldn't it refer to Nords?

Or is this all referring to some other Battle of Red Mountain altogether, one which took place against humans better described as Nedes? There's one or two mentions in previous games that it was possible a now-extinct group of humans once lived in Morrowind; is this who Balreth was fighting?

If you would just go ahead and post anything you know about ESO which is relevant to the lore, that would be great. :p

By the way, thank you for all your new articles! Insignificant Revisions^{Threats•Evidence} 08:34, 11 August 2014 (GMT)

I'll jump in, since I have some answers.

The quest in which General Balreth appears actually has nothing to do with red mountain. It appears on the slopes of Ash Mountain, which is in mainland morrowind, not Vvardenfell, thus it isn't clear which battle he was in on Red Mountain.

I personally think that their skin is lighter than dunmer, but other people tell me I'm wrong. Their eyes also seem different to me, as well as the shape of their faces. Often, however, with the lighting the way it is in the game, the true color of the face can be hard to ascertain.

They are, in fact, fighting nedes in the quest, but, as I outlined before, it isn't at Red Mountain so it isn't as much of an issue. It is simply another battle when he was fighting Nedes, which were widespread through tamriel long long ago (we see evidence of them from bangkorai to black marsh).

See answer to question 1. If you have specific lore questions, that would be best. There is so much new lore that simply trying to post everything one knows about lore would drive anyone crazy. Sorry to Legoless for hijacking his talk page. Also, ME, I'll be around for a few more hours if you have any other questions, I should be in IRC or my talk page works too :P I know Legoless and I focused on different alliances, so we may know more about one area of lore or another. I jumped in because I was doing quests in this zone today. :) Jeancey (talk) 09:14, 11 August 2014 (GMT)

Thought I might as well drop in too, as I've been reading up on this:

As far as I am aware, no connection is made between Balreth and Red Mountain; there's no evidence that I can find that he was involved in any battle there. The Ash Mountain battle in question takes place "Early in the First Era, when the Chimer were still new to Morrowind, the Nedes invaded. The battle that brought Sadal and Balreth here was the climax of that war."

Yes, there is a blue tint on the screen (when it's not bugged out), which makes it more difficult to distinguish any difference in colour. However, dialogue with the quest giver specifically mentions: "Long ago, we were the Chimer, with light skin and fair eyes. [...] To mark the ascent of the Three, we were gifted with this more sober complexion". The fact that it's specifically mentioned, along with the screenshots linked on Lore talk:Chimer which, to me, seem more golden than grey compared to Dunmer, suggests that they did appropriately alter the skin colour for Chimer.

They are fighting Nedes rather than Nords. In addition to the above, the quest giver says: "In ancient days, the Nedic tribes marched and plundered across the land. We call their descendants Nords."

Jeancey I think covered the rest. And I believe I started on the remaining alliance which these two did not (DC), so we make quite a complementary team in terms of lore.  :) --Enodoc (talk) 09:58, 11 August 2014 (GMT)

This 'ere video shows the relevant quests, and also has a borked colour filter (ie, the blue-tint-of-history is not working, or they just removed it). It shows the Chimer in all their golden splendour, as well as a Dunmer quest giver for comparison. --Enodoc (talk) 10:07, 11 August 2014 (GMT)

Thank you, that's extremely helpful. Too tired to pursue it further at the moment, though. Insignificant Revisions^{Threats•Evidence} 11:33, 11 August 2014 (GMT)

Hopefully that covers everything then. If you're planning to write about Balreth and Sadal, I'd recommend distinguishing between the Chimer generals and the monsters. The bone colossi are actually described as Daedra, and the brothers' spirits continue to exist independently from them. —Legoless (talk) 18:37, 11 August 2014 (GMT)

Akavir's civil war.

Im sorry if i bothered with this lore-confusion, as far i know there was a civil war in Akavir between the Ka Po' Tun and the Tsaesci, i suspect that during the first centuries of the 4th era they started a second civil war that left Akavir devasted with a few survivors such as the Tang Mo and the humans(If there are humans in Akavir.), the main threat of Tamriel in the present are the Dragons, not even the Thalmor(As they are in "peace" with the Empire.). 189.60.87.146 00:32, 28 August 2014 (GMT)

Where did you read that? It wasn't anything official. —Legoless (talk) 00:43, 28 August 2014 (GMT)

Moving to User talk:189.60.87.146

Nede Revamp

Hi, not too long ago I completely rewrote the article on the Nedes based on omitted old information and new lore from Craglorn. I'm not completely happy with it (I cut some corners e.g. details of contentious origin) also now that Upper Craglorn is out I'm assuming new lore has been added. Anyway you seem to be one of the top contributors to the lore space, would you mind taking a look at the article and maybe make a few changes or give suggestions?--StormySkies (talk) 02:08, 19 September 2014 (GMT)

The Nedes aren't really my strongpoint, and I haven't been able to do much of the Craglorn storyline yet. I've given the article a read over and tweaked some grammar, and I'll try to look into the multiple origin stories, but otherwise the article looks about as comprehensive as it can be. —Legoless (talk) 15:51, 19 September 2014 (GMT)

Vamp Lord

Hey, I noticed you reverted my edit on the Lore:Daughter of Coldharbour article, however what you added back had no source to it. Or any proof confirming it's true, I'm wondering exactly why it was added back, since I assume speculation and type isn't allowed on articles. We don't see a "Daughter of Coldharbour" ever become a Vampire Lord nor do they ever claim to have this ability within Skyrim or any lore book Zippertrain85 (talk) 23:08, 25 September 2014 (GMT)

We can infer that all Daughters of Coldharbour must be vampire lords from the events of the Dawnguard add-on. All pure-blooded vampires (as well as the lesser vampires that they sire) are vampire lords, and all Daughters of Coldharbour are pure-blooded. Also, the player becomes a vampire lord if infected by Serana, which confirms it more directly. —Legoless (talk) 23:13, 25 September 2014 (GMT)

Months

There actually aren't any redirects for the months in lorespace. Do you think this is something that would be useful? I just realized it when you added the lore link to the most recent Loremaster's Archive. Jeancey (talk) 00:07, 14 October 2014 (GMT)

Oh, weird, I just assumed we had them. Maybe redirects to Lore:Calendar§Months of the Year would be useful. —Legoless (talk) 00:11, 14 October 2014 (GMT)

Animus Geodes

Hi Legoless!

I just noticed that back in early September you reverted an edit that I made regarding animus geodes in the page on Souls, saying that in ESO they are distinct from soul gems. Could you please explain the difference? The Missive from the Mages Guild mentions that they want to acquire an exotic variety of rock known as "geode" to use it in the making of soul gems. Thank you very much for your explanation! Feynn (talk) 04:52, 15 October 2014 (GMT)

Animus geodes are very distinct from soul gems in a couple ways. In the missive you linked above, they are distinguished from the "traditional crystalline" soul gems, while also implying that they are literal geodes (i.e. hollow rocks with crystals inside). In-game, they usually appear as gems, but I wouldn't read too much into that. The Excavation of Ouze also expands a little on their stone-like nature. As far as function goes, we learn that the animus geodes are very volatile and easily smashed during the quest The Thin Ones. Smashing them also seems to release the soul trapped within, which is kind of at odds with the whole Soul Cairn business. During the quest The Captain's Honor, we also see a geode being used to steal memories from a living person. In summary, the geodes are a distinct concept from traditional soul gems, even though I concede that the latter term could probably be broadly applied to both of them. 21:53, 15 October 2014 (GMT)

I am not sure I understand why you wouldn't read too much into the fact in-game that the animus geodes look identical to soul gems. Isn't their in-game appearance an important source of information? And what about the fact that in TES V: Skyrim you can mine geode veins to get soul gems? The Excavation of Ouze mentions their stone-like nature, and the Oxford Dictionary defines a gem as "A precious or semi-precious stone, especially when cut and polished or engraved" so I don't really see your point there. I can see now that I misread the Missive above, which in fact refers to those geodes as having a distinctively different appearance, but the missive also mentions that the Mages Guild is experimenting with these stones in the hope they might have greater capacity for animus storage. So these "hollow stones" are something new, not something that has already been in common usage among mages and necromancers, as the many occurrences of animus geodes in the quests would otherwise suggest. The fact that Arch-Wizard Sameht is able to use an animus geode (which, again, looks just like a soul gem) to steal a victim's memories in The Captain's Honor doesn't mean that that's a common practice: it may be just some particular ability of Arch-Wizard Sameht after all, instead of pointing to a difference between soul gems and animus geodes, no? As for the Soul Cairn business, it has been suggested elsewhere that only the souls trapped by necromancers who have made a deal with the Ideal Masters actually go to the Soul Cairn, and it has also been suggested that only a part of the soul actually goes to the Soul Cairn (otherwise what do you actually trap in the soul gem?). I don't think there is an official source for this theory, but it would explain at least why the Vestige's soul did not go to the Soul Cairn maybe? And besides, why would the Ideal Masters only lay a claim to the souls trapped in soul gems and not those trapped in animus geodes? I can see that stones used for soul collection could vary in shape, size, colour and whatnot, but how can we assume that they would work any differently? Thank you for your answer, but I think this is one of the many areas in which Bethesda/Zenimax failed to provide us with a coherent account of the lore. I would say that any distinction between soul gems and animus geodes (not to mention soul diamonds and spirit shards!) is at the very least a contested one. Feynn (talk) 13:49, 16 October 2014 (GMT)

As I said, animus geodes can probably be broadly defined as soul gems, but that doesn't equate them to the common cystals. Also, ESO is quite lazy when it comes to re-using models and icons and such (which is obviously to be expected for such a quest-heavy MMO), and geodes looking like crystal shards isn't the only inconsistency between the lore and the in-game appearance. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head right now is a supposedly Dominion-minted coin that has the same icon as an Imperial coin, i.e. a Chim-el Adabal engraving despite a contradictory text description (from a Khenarthi's Roost quest, fyi). Lore descriptions should always come before re-used artwork, in my mind. As far as our lore articles go, I think it's important to keep a distinction between the gems and the geodes, although including them on the same article isn't a bad idea; at the moment we don't even have one. —Legoless (talk) 15:33, 17 October 2014 (GMT)

In ESO, I think that the term "animus geode" is often applied to the Sigil Geodes mentioned here, which are distinct from soul gems. I'm not yet sure if the two terms are equivalent, or if Sigil Geodes are a type of animus geode. Quantheory (talk) 02:59, 18 October 2014 (GMT)

The sigil geodes seem like a different thing again. AFAIK they only appear in one quest. —Legoless (talk) 10:33, 18 October 2014 (GMT)

Gargoyle?

Hey Legoless, are you absolutely sure that the creature into which Majorn the Ancient transforms is a gargoyle? I mean, it does resemble a gargoyle, but the Vampire Lord in Dawnguard also did (they even had the same animations if I remember correctly), and besides a vampire transforming into a gargoyle doesn't make much sense. Or maybe I'm wrong and it's like with the ESO rieklings which aren't rieklings at all... -Vordur Steel-Hammer2 (talk) 22:34, 17 October 2014 (GMT)

It's definitely a gargoyle. ESO's gargoyles actually look almost identical to Skyrim's, so there shouldn't be any confusion. A Vampire Lord would make a lot more sense, but besides the wings there isn't really anything to go on. However, a "vampire lord" is mentioned during the quest Blood Hunt. I think it's still too vague to add to the bestiary though, especially since we don't see his true form at all (i.e. no creature appearance). —Legoless (talk) 22:38, 17 October 2014 (GMT)

Edit: Actually, Lamae Beolfag also appears in-game, so it might be worth adding after all even if we don't get to see their true form. —Legoless (talk) 22:42, 17 October 2014 (GMT)

Ok, I see. By the way, how do you do these links with an arrow in Edit Summary that link to a new section (like "→Notes:")? I can't find the info about it anywhere. -Vordur Steel-Hammer2 (talk) 23:37, 17 October 2014 (GMT)

It can be done manually as /* Header Name */, but it gets added to the summary automatically if you edit the section instead of the entire page. —Legoless (talk) 10:33, 18 October 2014 (GMT)

Thanks! -Vordur Steel-Hammer2 (talk) 11:56, 18 October 2014 (GMT)

Thanks for Abagarlas change

You have been given a cookie! Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say: Thanks for addressing the Oblivion stuff in the Abagarlas article.

After a mostly-voluntary but unexpected one month absence, I've been going through changes in my watchlist and noticed your Abagarlas edit on September 20. Thanks for addressing that! I'd wanted to but didn't feel like I had a good handle on it. Maybe it's not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things, but I do love it when someone comes in and improves something that I'd been uncertain about, and little changes don't get enough recognition sometimes. Quantheory (talk) 02:07, 18 October 2014 (GMT)

No problem! The Abagarlas situation was puzzling me for a while, and it was a pleasant surprise to find we already had an article written. —Legoless (talk) 10:33, 18 October 2014 (GMT)

Etiquette

Please observe etiquette when attempting to deal with people. Your comments about my behaviour are entirely unjustifiable, and your attempts to hype up the situation in order to get me warned or blocked are not going unnoticed. If you do not stop your behaviour I will be forced once again to ask for administrative action to be taken against you. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 14:59, 27 October 2014 (GMT)

(Edit in question.) I hope you appreciate the irony of "hyping the situation". If a simple suggestion to tone down your attitude is met with such hostility, I have to question your ability to comment on my own etiquette. As it stands, I have zero desire to see you officially warned again (thus the userpage message before things got any more heated), but this will change if you continue you attack other editors—myself included. It doesn't make for a nice environment. —Legoless (talk) 15:09, 27 October 2014 (GMT)

I am not attacking you, I am simply reminding you of your responsibilities as an administrator which you so clearly refuse to follow. Do not forget I have proved you have lied to get me blocked before, even if the majority decided that wasn't enough to strip you of your rights. Your comments are simply trying to silence me, where Dominus at least has the courtesy to allow me to explain myself, where you do not. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 15:12, 27 October 2014 (GMT)

My responsibilities as an administrator have nothing to do with this, nor does the specific contents of the discussion on Jeancey's page. I'm not trying to "silence" you, I'm asking you to discuss things civilly. As an aside, please do not try to defame me by continuing to accuse me of lying despite the ridiculousness of your proof. If you have so little confidence in my administrative abilities and community input, please contact a different admin. —Legoless (talk) 15:19, 27 October 2014 (GMT)

I have. You are welcome to prove me incorrect (without lying (you even admitted to it). Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 15:21, 27 October 2014 (GMT)

Links to namespace from Lore

Despite having been an active editor for years, I still doe not use enough time here to feel confident in many policy things, so I think it is best to ask for a straight explanation, if you do not mind: Was there something special with this removed link compared with other, to me seemingly similar links to the Shivering Isles namespace in the same article that made this more important to remove, or could I interpret the removal as a go to remove other, similar links to the Shivering Isles namespace in the same and similar Lore articles? —MortenOSlash (talk) 05:39, 14 November 2014 (GMT)

Lore should not have links to gamespace in the main text. See Also, in the tables and such, that is fine, but not in the text itself. If it is important enough that it NEEDS to be linked to, it is likely also important enough to have its own lore page. Jeancey (talk) 06:09, 14 November 2014 (GMT)

Having said that, there are a number of lore articles with gamespace links incorrectly inserted on them. —Legoless (talk) 08:27, 14 November 2014 (GMT)

I'm slightly confused on this as well. I noticed on this page that there are a few links to the shivering isles pages. Would that be what you're talking about when you say no links to gamespaces? My second question is, if that is what you're talking about then are links that go to other lore pages allowed on those types of pages? Hope this makes sense because i suck at explaining things. Lorenut (talk) 09:02, 14 November 2014 (GMT)

Yes, lore page to lore page links are fine. Arden-Sul is a bit of a special case because of this edit: moved Shivering:Arden-Sul to Lore:Arden-Sul: Consensus to move from Shivering to Lore. The page was moved from gamespace to lorespace but the links were never updated. --Enodoc (talk) 09:28, 14 November 2014 (GMT)

So I should do more of this would be good? (Did I do it right?) —MortenOSlash (talk) 08:42, 15 November 2014 (GMT)

That's the right idea, but you should use {{Lore Link|whatever}} instead of [[Lore:whatever]] whenever possible. That template links to an article in the same namespace when possible, but falls back to the Lore article if an article with the same name isn't found in that namespace. So, links to Shivering Isles would point to Lore:Shivering Isles in Lore space, but Shivering:Shivering Isles if the article were transcluded into Shivering space. Of course, in Arden-Sul, it's not a big deal because it's never transcluded anywhere outside of Lore space, but it's probably good practice, just in case it ever is transcluded elsewhere. (Or at least this is my understanding of things...the people who are more active in Lore space may have more to say on the matter.) – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 13:44, 15 November 2014 (GMT)

It would be best to use the lore link template instead of outright removing links. —Legoless (talk) 13:49, 15 November 2014 (GMT)

Thanks guys! That clears things up really well.Lorenut (talk) 14:47, 15 November 2014 (GMT)

(←) So what I did here is more like it? Shold I use {{Lore Link|whatever}} on the parts not transcluded (was that the correct word?) also? —MortenOSlash (talk) 16:25, 15 November 2014 (GMT)

Yep. —Legoless (talk) 16:27, 15 November 2014 (GMT)

And then the rest of the article is edited too. I removed a couple of the links where they repeated in the same subsection. Please check extra, as this is my first and I am an autopatrolled user. —MortenOSlash (talk) 16:41, 15 November 2014 (GMT)

ESO image for the Jerall Mountains

Hey, yesterday I saw that you made space for the ESO image in Lore:Jerall Mountains. I've already uploaded the image, but I have no idea where to squeeze it in. Could you put it in the place you originally intended to? --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 16:24, 7 December 2014 (GMT)

Yeah, not much room with the map. I've just moved the images to a gallery. —Legoless (talk) 16:29, 7 December 2014 (GMT)

Emperor's Guide to Tamriel

Hey there. I saw your message on CP. I'm very keen to help with this project, so I can help with layout, proofreading and links. Are we literally just copy/pasting from TIL? I assume everything with TIL is okay? --Jimeee (talk) 12:41, 12 December 2014 (GMT)

Yep, just copying over. I'm not sure if they've proofread it yet though. —Legoless (talk) 16:01, 12 December 2014 (GMT)

Claudius Arcadia and Rufio revert

@Legoless: I don't get the "better wording before" and "not easier" at all because of the lack of explanation. I hate to be sounding a little obstinate (which I'll try not to be) after my history of blocks and warnings, but I do agree with my rewording despite you reverting it. Please tell me how you came to that conclusion, okay? Thank you. DG^#:) 22:20, 19 December 2014 (GMT)

Sure. Your Rufio edit was overly wordy - I see what you were trying to do by specifying the exact circumstances, but "after he has conversed with you during your first encounter with him" is not a good sentence structure and actually makes the note harder to understand relative to the simpler wording that was in place before.

I'll address your Arcadia edit in two parts. The first change (about the Black Sacrament) was originally in chronological order (i.e., he performed the Sacrament and then arranged for the assassination). Your shuffling of clauses mixes this up, and I also don't agree with replacing "assassination" with "death", since the former is more contractual and therefore truer to the nature of the crime. The second change (about the house key) is unnecessary, since Phillida's possession of the key isn't really all that obvious. Sure, it makes logical sense that main investigator of the Brotherhood would be the only one to have it, but it certainly isn't obvious, especially out of context like that.

Sorry if these explanations are a bit pedantic, but that's sort of the nature of these opinionated wording tweaks. —Legoless (talk) 22:40, 19 December 2014 (GMT)

To capitalize or not to?

Hey Legoless! Happy Holidays! I am wondering about capitalizing profession names of magi, mystics, magisters, stewards of Fighters Guild, chefs, brewers, etc. It all looks strange to me in lower case for some reason... When I write "He is a Magus/magus" or "She is a Steward/steward of the Fighters Guild" - do I capitalize it or not? Thanks! - Shuryard (talk) 00:09, 28 December 2014 (GMT)

I can jump in here. You do not capitalize them, unless it is a title, for instance the Grand Warlord, Guildmaster, etc. You wouldn't say "I needed something sewn up so I drove to the Tailor." after all. Jeancey (talk) 01:15, 28 December 2014 (GMT)

With my next question I will come directly to your page :-P Thanks! - Shuryard (talk) 01:40, 28 December 2014 (GMT)

Oblivion:A Knife in the Dark

Regarding your reply, I've put a cleanup tag on the article. This is merely a notification on the matter. – Dragon Guard  ^(talk) 21:30, 28 December 2014 (GMT)