Skyrim talk:Places/Archive 1

This is an archive of past Skyrim talk:Places discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Cities

It would appear that the "five large cities" mentioned by Bethseda are Riften, Whiterun, Solitude, Winterhold and Markarth. These five are the cities which (like Oblivion's nine cities) require a load time to enter and are in their own instance. The other four remaining holds have medium-size towns (Windhelm, Falkreath, Morthal and Dawnstar) which require no load time to enter, but are still bigger than a small village/settlements like Riverwood - however here the lines begin to blur. I wanted to edit this but when I saw that it was using templates I didn't want to go and change category listings or templates. Cheers :) 115.70.34.82 07:44, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

We'll know for sure soon enough. rpeh •T•C•E• 07:53, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Regardless, I think we'll stlll want to call all nine cities, because they're all "capitals" of holds and home to the Jarls. --Nephele^Talk 12:53, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

We should probably start talking about how to deal with the various types locations

I've compiled a small list of all the ones I can think of.

• Stormcloak camps
• Imperial Legion camps
• Giant / Mammoth camps
• Caves
• Mines
• Forts (which can either contain dungeon type areas or not, and be full of enemies or friendlies)
• Nordic Ruins (ala Bleak Falls Barrow)
• Nordic burial site (not sure what else to call these yet - the couple I found didn't contain a dungeon area but did have draugr)
• Dwemer Ruins (I'm assuming these are usually dungeons)
• Stables
• Wayshrines (to the divines)
• Monuments (Not sure what the purpose of these is)
• Standing Stones
• Daedric Shrines (I assume)
• There's one shack I found in the middle of the wilderness with an old lady living there. So far it's symbol is unique.
• Farms have a unique symbol as opposed to settlements.
• Honningbrew Meadery (i'm assuming other similar meaderies would have the same symbol?)
• High Hrothgar is on the map with a "fort" symbol.

Revoran 18:35, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

There's two sets of internal flags used to identify the places. There are LocSet flags:

• LocSetCave
• LocSetCaveIce
• LocSetDwarvenRuin
• LocSetMilitaryCamp
• LocSetMilitaryFort
• LocSetNordicRuin
• LocSetOutdoor

And then there are LocType flags:

• LocTypeAnimalDen
• LocTypeBanditCamp
• LocTypeBarracks
• LocTypeCastle
• LocTypeCemetery
• LocTypeCity
• LocTypeClearable
• LocTypeDragonLair
• LocTypeDragonPriestLair
• LocTypeDraugrCrypt
• LocTypeDungeon
• LocTypeDwarvenAutomatons
• LocTypeDwelling
• LocTypeFalmerHive
• LocTypeFarm
• LocTypeForswornCamp
• LocTypeGiantCamp
• LocTypeGuild
• LocTypeHabitation
• LocTypeHabitationHasInn
• LocTypeHagravenNest
• LocTypeHold
• LocTypeHoldCapital
• LocTypeHoldMajor
• LocTypeHoldMinor
• LocTypeHouse
• LocTypeInn
• LocTypeJail
• LocTypeLumberMill
• LocTypeMilitaryCamp
• LocTypeMilitaryFort
• LocTypeMine
• LocTypeOrcStronghold
• LocTypePlayerHouse
• LocTypeSettlement
• LocTypeShip
• LocTypeShipwreck
• LocTypeSprigganGrove
• LocTypeStewardsDwelling
• LocTypeStore
• LocTypeTemple
• LocTypeTown
• LocTypeVampireLair
• LocTypeWarlockLair
• LocTypeWerewolfLair

Of course we'll want to translate these flags into proper words. Other than that, however, I think we want to stick to these internal flags as much as possible for identifying the place types. And we should be able to do that identification automatically (by bot), once we've got a bunch of higher priority tasks completed. --Nephele^Talk 19:52, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Being so new to editing a Wiki, I would have felt more confident to add info on the different types of locations if there were both a section to list them under and a set of templates, if anyone competent would be so kind. --MortenOSlash 06:05, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

After now spending much too long working on place identification, I think I need to say enough is enough. Basically, there are multiple different type tags assigned to nearly every place in the game. The most visible are the icons used on the map -- but I have yet to find (even in the official game guide) any legend providing the meaning of those icons; also a large number of places don't have any map icon. Then there are the keywords I listed above, but there are multiple keywords assigned to a place and there's no unique relationship between keywords and map icons. Finally, there are the place names themselves, but there are, for example, places named "House" which are identified by icon/keyword as a farm. So the bottom line is I haven't been able to come up with a good, clean, way to identify the places.

Instead, I've tried to patch together a hybrid identification system. If an icon is available, I normally use that icon. My best guesses at names for the icons (along with some notes pointing out complications/uncertainties) are:

• 0 = Test places
• 2 = Town (those shown on the printed map, including Helgen)
• 3 = Settlement (estates, sanctuaries, meadery, etc)
• 4 = Cave (roughly corresponds to LocSetCave)
• 5 = Campsite (LocTypeBanditCamp and LocTypeForswornCamp)
• 6 = Fort (LocSetMilitaryFort)
• 7 = Nordic Ruin (although maybe one-quarter don't have the LocSetNordicRuin keyword)
• 8 = Dwarven Ruin (LocSetDwarvenRuin)
• 9 = Ship (and/or Shipwreck)
• 10 = Grove
• 11 = Landmark (rock, summit, Throat of the World, etc)
• 12 = Dragon Lair
• 13 = Farm (Farms use 3, 13, or 19. No idea what the difference is)
• 14 = Lumber Mill
• 15 = Mine
• 16 = Military Camp
• 17 = Military Camp
• 19 = Farm
• 21 = Stables
• 22 = Tower (watchtowers, beacons -- not sure how to differentiate from 31)
• 23 = Pond
• 24 = Pass (only one entry -- Wayward Pass)
• 27 = Lighthouse (only two entries)
• 28 = Orc Stronghold
• 29 = Giant Camp
• 30 = Building (shacks, cabins)
• 31 = Tower
• 32 = Ruins
• 33 = East Empire Company Warehouse
• 34 = Daedric Shrine
• Remaining numbers are individual icons only used for a single place:
  • 36 = Riften
  • 37 = Palace of the Kings
  • 38 = Windhelm
  • 39 = Dragonsreach
  • 40 = Whiterun
  • 42 = Solitude
  • 43 = Understone Keep / Nchuand Zel
  • 44 = Markarth
  • 46 = Winterhold
  • 48 = Morthal
  • 50 = Falkreath
  • 52 = Dawnstar

If there's no icon, I try to decide on the best single keyword to use as the place type. And then include other keywords as additional categories for the place page. I'm sure people will find cases that need to be tweaked, but I don't think I'm going to be able to make much more progress based on game data alone. So I'm going to unleash the bot with my final best-guesses of types, and dump a bunch of place lists onto the various place sub pages. --Nephele^Talk 06:39, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Daedric Shrines in Skyrim

They are present. I managed to locate 3 up until now, and I was not really even trying (too hard):

Meridia - Just west of Solitude. You can reach it by following the road heading west and turning north after you pass the dragon heads on a cliff above the road. (Gave me a quest as I approached. Character was level 18 at the time. The reward is the Dawnbreaker blade)

Peryite - West of Dragontooth crater, near the top of the mountain. There is a Khajiit near it that will initiate a quest to summon/contact the Prince.

Mehrunes Dagon - This one is hidden in the central mountain region, it's a (locked - key needed) cave carved into a mountain near the Lord Stone. In fact, you can see the shrine in heavy snowfall from the Lord Stone. There are a 2 forts ( bandit occupied, by default ) near it.

(Vlko 04:45, 17 November 2011 (UTC))

Testing Areas

One was recently posted about on the XBOX modding forum, Se7ensins.com. Type "coc qasmoke" in the console. Apparently you can get every item in the game from this room, but there's no exit so you have to coc to another location to escape. When are we going to start documenting testing halls in Skyrim? 209.159.183.132 03:23, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Unmarked places

What about unmarked places on the map... like a gate to nowhere (may be meant for a later DLC east of "Stendarr's Beacon") -- 68.172.212.252 00:17, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

True the pages for both the Elder Scrolls and Fallout series have look list of "Unmarked Places" listed and Skyrim is full of them. It would go nicely under the "Other Places" header 174.252.36.78 10:43, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

I would bet this bag of cheetohs next to me that Kagrenzal will be part of a future dlc.. As far as unmarked locations, That would be helpful to alot of people looking for the places that arnt marked on the map.bearhiderug 16:26, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

(←) I think it's time to start deciding how to document the unmarked places. Without a Skyrim map, I was reluctant to put much effort into documenting them. One main concern was that without a map it's very difficult to clearly identify an unmarked place -- we'd be sending readers on wild-goose chases; editors wouldn't be able to edit existing descriptions because they wouldn't be sure they were in the right place; places could easily end up being added to a list multiple times. Now that we have a Skyrim map, those problems can be fixed.

At this point, there are general pages about two types of unmarked place: Shrines and Dragon Mounds. However, looking through the site, there are many other places that end up getting mentioned multiple times and should probably have a primary description somewhere. One random minor example is the upturned canoe that contains both a Scimitar and a copy of Daughter of the Niben. I'd be willing to start adding such places to the Skyrim map, but there are some questions to address:

• What do we name these locations?
• What map symbol should we use?
• Where do we list these places on the wiki?

I think as far as names go, we should just use the names from the Official Game Guide. I'd prefer to use names provided by Bethesda, but at least in the cases I've examined, there's no evidence that the developers have name these locations. Dragon mounds each have a unique tag, but those tags are region+number, not real names. For example, DragonMoundSnowy02 or DragonMoundTundraMarsh01. With the upturned canoe, I'm not seeing any names in the area. The cell is POINorthernCoast14. Presumably POI is for "Point of Interest", so they are tagging the cell as containing special content, but again just using region+number. So if we're going to have to use made-up names for these locations, I think it's best to use the names that have already been made up for the Official Game Guide, thus limiting confusion. So that means our canoe is going to be rechristened as a "Barnacle Boat".

I think we'll also want a different map symbol for these locations to make it more obvious on the map that the locations do not have an in-game map marker. Again, somewhat following the Official Game Guide's example where they use different labels on their map. I might just upload a simple circle icon to use as a starting point.

Finally, I think for wiki pages, we'll need to do something different than the Oblivion:Unmarked Places page used in Oblivion -- there will just be far too many places to put them all on one page. One page for each hold perhaps? Any other ideas? --Nephele^Talk 22:17, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Unmarked?

There is a puzzle (bird-snake-whale thingy) southeast of the Sleeping Tree camp, leading to a treasure chest. Unmarked. Where are these types of locations on this list?— Unsigned comment by 88.132.45.92 (talk) at 14:11 on 29 December 2011

They don't seem to have been added yet. I believe I've only found that one though, are there others in the open world? If there are more than one, it may be good to make a page for them and add them to an "Unmarked Places" category in Other Places. Melleh17 22:39, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I have tried a whole lot of combinations on that puzzle, maybe all I think, and pulled the lever between each time, without any luck so far. I think it does not do anything other than giving the impression age has worn down a former ruin until decayed into a state most of it has been torn down and scattered, and any possible dungeon it has contained has collapsed or have been in some other way turned in to an uexplorable state. It gives a kind of authentic feeling from it. --MortenOSlash 19:56, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

You can read a bit more about it at Sleeping Tree Camp. --Alfwyn 21:59, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Seems I have not tried all combinations then. Thanks! ;o) --MortenOSlash 05:36, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

"The Game Cemetery"

Sorry for my bad english. I found this place because i was looking for Haelga (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Haelga) but i could't find her, and i was hoping to had not kill her. So i used the console command player.moveto 00019DDA to go to her and i found a strange place. the structure was like an x and there were some corpses(lootable) and a standing person with interactions (he says only hmm or things like that, like the guards or non important npcs). The colors of the walls were strange and there were some bugged textures. There were 2 graves (empty). At the every ending of the room there were black doors, and if you cross them you fall down and the find yourself in the centre of this room again. I saved a fle to see the name of the palce and it was "uknown place". I tried to revive Haelga, she spawned there and had interactions but she can't go back to Haelga's Bunkhouse... so i went there and used the "place at me command" and everything went back normal apart of the quests relative Haelga. So this place is useless. I think there were only the essentials npc (there were 5 npc, and i didt'n killed 5 npc, i killed more). I'm posting the screens and i'm going to do a footage of this thing later. Hope somebody finds out what this place is. Name: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/214/tesv2012010221165944.png/ Map: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/441/tesv2012010221161973.png/ Ingame: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/819/tesv2012010221160948.png/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/688/tesv2012010221153377.png/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/638/tesv2012010221152984.png/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/69/tesv2012010221152211.png/ — Unsigned comment by 95.244.4.160 (talk) at 18:00 on January 2, 2012

In the English Creation Kit, this place's ID is WIDeadBodyCleanupCell and it has no name. I am unsure how to find more information about this place, but there's the ID if anyone is more familair with the CK. --Velyanthe 16:55, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Respawn Times?

What are the rules of dungeons repopulating? I'm guessing that many are scripted to not refill and such... but how long does it usually take?

I'm especially interested in the times for Dwemer Ruins. Since these places are abundant with certain special kinds of loot hardly found anywhere else, I'd hope they do repopulate. Although it wouldn't seem 'realistic' since it's full of ancient machines and such, it would suck quite a lot if they didn't. --Zmedaris 23:17, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Trust me it wouldnt be an elders scrolls game if they didn't repopulate. I've played the games since morrowind (hardcore all the way) and I know elders scrolls enough to realize that it wouldn't be an elders scrolls game without dungeon repopulating. Because they want you to play for as long as you possibly can, so not having dungeons respawn is out of the question for TES so it's only a matter of time for Skyrim.

Skyrim compared to Morrowind and Oblivion is a lot different with respawning. In morrowind aggro monsters and people respawned within almost every 24 hours (really often) however in Oblivion it got a little longer, however it still stayed to around 1-3 days for a respawn. You could go into a dungeon, loot it all, exit, wait for 1-3 days and go back in and repeat. But Skyrim is a new era of TES series because it takes quite a lot longer for things to respawn. When I first played the first month it came out I was amazed at how long it took guards to respawn, which was cool cause you dont want to kill EVERY guard and then come back a day later and suddenly the entire town is reguarded again, its not realistic. So in Skyrim the respawn time is a lot longer I once waited 7-14 in game days for the deer in the whiterun plains to respawn for leather.

I wish I could give you specific times but its hard without a PC version of the game XD Just talking from experience. Already played 200 hours on my Khajiit vampire. Just playing until I get bored and start a new character =D — Unsigned comment by 76.71.39.44 (talk) at 20:17 on 24 January 2012

(←) *Caves :25 days.

• Dwemer Ruins :30 days.
• Dwemer Ruins that reset are as follows

Alftand

Mzinchaleft

BLACKREACH & THE TOWER OF MZARK.

Raldtbhar

Bthardamz

Nchuand-zel

Avanchnzel (Retested, it does reset in-game 30 days)

• Dwemer ruins that do NOT reset are as follows.

Irknhgthand

Mzulft

Kagrenzel (and by does not reset, I mean, It may actually repopulate, but cannot be accessed without use of console)

• Dwemer ruins that I havent personally tested

Sightless Pit

• Note: Blackreach Connects Alftand and Mzinchaleft, if you search around while in blackreach, you will eventually find that blackreach is a huge tunnel that allows you to traverse long distances in a very short period, you can go in blackreach, and come out near windhelm or halfway to markarth by using the "great lifts" of alftand and mzinchaleft
• Nordic Ruins :30 days.
• City Guard :3 days (lol idunno)
• Mines : 30+ days ( Along with any material veins for use with a pickaxe )
• Dragon Lairs :CORRECTION, 30+ days with draugr, dragon priests however, do not respawn.
• Giant Camps :1-5 days? ( Ive visited 3 giant camps to test this out, on one hand the mammoths killed and giants killed respawned 2 days afterwards, and then on the other 2 occassions, they didn't respawn at all, this needs verification as well.)
• Military camps :Never (Except for an essential unkillable camp leader, who's either stormcloak or imperial, the only respawning enemies are the wounded soldiers laying down)
• Regular Ruins (Just plain "Ruins") :25-30 days.

If you want to verify this, just go clean out raldbthar (dwemer ruin), and then wait 25-30 days in game (You cannot just hit the wait function 30 times for an entire 24 hours while standing outside of the doors to a dwemer ruin and then go inside expecting everything to be reset, fast-traveling around to a few holds while using the wait function, walking around, and going exploring in between doing the large amount of waiting will leave you better off to find a dungeon reset), the centurion master, workers, and sphere guardians will all pop out at you again (although specifically in raldbthar the bridge at the end of the area that leads to outside is guarded by a centurion master, which requires you to unlodge a few stuck spindles in order to get the draw bridge to fold down, and it's known that sometimes the draw bridge glitches and does not collapse down even after the bones stuck in the cranks are pulled out), hope this helps, may not be 100% accurate, but it's damn close! >;D, PS : I do know that the main dwemer ruins do respawn enemies, One of the ruins that has a centurion master guarding the exit was killed (by me) during some odd quest, so being curious I checked out the ruin again, however this time I went straight through the back entrance only to find myself staring at the rear end of a respawned and recharging Centurion Master, It was ralbdthar's back entrance to the "market depths", I found the outpost, and used TCL to go through the gates, and then went down into the market, and the first double door I opened, He was just standing there, Places like Mzinchaleft DEFINITELY respond both bandits and dwarven machines as well, hope this helps again like I said. — Unsigned comment by 24.63.171.231 (talk) at 09:22 on 11 February 2012

Map images

I'm new to contributing so I appologize if this isn't in the right spot. I believe the location places pages would benefit from images of the map; similar to elderscrolls.wikia.com. Currently there is just directions where to locate any said place. — Unsigned comment by MrOlaf (talk • contribs) at 22:22 on 12 January 2012

We have those for Oblivion and, I think, Morrowind. They will be added evetually but thanks for the suggestion.RIM 22:25, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

"Dead Body Cleanup" Cell

Concerning the Game Cemetery above, it is really where the corpses of named NPCs who were killed in game go to after some time. Many people in the Dark Brotherhood questlines can be found here after finishing the job. The name of the cell is wideadbodycleanupcell and it has no name assigned to it, thus the "Unkown Location" map. — Unsigned comment by 131.91.19.83 (talk) at 16:10 on 27 January 2012

Clearable and Dungeon in Place Summary

Is there a description of what Clearable and Dungeon on certain places mean? And possibly other ones. Those two are the ones I've seen that I'm unsure about. -- MartinS 94.255.233.233 21:11, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Dungeon is loosely used to refer to actual dungeons (think guards, cells, etc.) and locations (virtually always underground) with enemies/loot. Clearable is pretty self-explanatory; some "dungeons", once you've killed all the static enemies inside, will be marked "cleared" on your map. New enemies may eventually respawn, and more enemies may be found if a radiant quest takes you to that location, but the notice serves to remind players that they've already visited and "cleared" a location in the past. Minor Edits^{Threats•Evidence} 22:22, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

There is a bit of discussion about it here. Basically the pages started out with was found in the game data (having the LocTypeDungeon or LocTypeClearable keyword set). It is not clear what the developers meant by using those keywords, they seem to match the intuitive meaning only loosly. The clearable flag was later changed on most pages to reflect whether it is possible to clear the location (showing "(cleared)" on the map). --Alfwyn 12:25, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Ok. Meanwhile I found the Dungeons page, where clearable is explained. Would it be possible to make the "Clearable" text in Place

Summary link there? And if there is a similar explanation for "Dungeon" do so for that too (the Community_Portal page is likely too fluid for that.)?

-- MartinS 94.255.233.233 20:28, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Nephele made the links you suggested just a few days ago. – Robin Hood↝talk 06:40, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Good. Thanks! -- MartinS 94.255.233.233 20:28, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

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