Skyrim talk:Magic Overview

The UESPWiki – Your source for The Elder Scrolls since 1995
Jump to: navigation, search

Magic "Overview"[edit]

Shouldn't we call this article just "Skyrim:Magic" without the "Overview" part? Pretty soon we will have to have such article anyways so we can start already. --Arkhon 18:34, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

A "Skyrim:Magic" page will be created for links to every single magic aspect of the game, like with Oblivion and other games. This page is meant for general magic in Skyrim with the different kind of schools and all that. Check Oblivion:Magic Overview ~ Dwarfmp 18:39, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for making it more clear, well at least for me (I'm new here) ;). --Arkhon 18:42, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
Me, I'm very new! But one thing is not clear. *How* do you cast a spell! I assume it's by clicking Left/Right mouse button. But I've tried this and even though I can *see* the spell glowing round my hand I can't cast it by clicking the appropriate mouse button and I've no idea what I'm doing wrong. So a complete idiot's guide to how to cast would help.83.163.251.162 16:50, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
(e/c) I've been following the structure that evolved for Oblivion, where Oblivion:Magic is a list of links to all of the articles that discuss topics relevant to magic, and Oblivion:Magic Overview is the article discussing how to actually use magic. Similarly, we now have both Skyrim:Magic and Skyrim:Magic Overview. On the other hand, it could make just as much sense to reverse the article names. Now's definitely the best time to work out such questions. --NepheleTalk 18:44, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
I haven't even thought about that... Maybe it does make more sense to switch them! Thanks Arkhon for pointing that out! What do other admins think? If we would switch it, we ought to do the same with Oblivion etc. ~ Dwarfmp 18:49, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
Well, I think that this structure makes perfect sense. I just didn't know that there's "Magic" and "Magic Overview". Skyrim:Magic will have links to all of the articles that discuss topics relevant to magic, and Skyrim:Magic Overview is the article discussing how to actually use magic. I'm ok with the naming too. --Arkhon 18:58, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Yes I was actually just thinking that.. it's fine the way it is now cause it may just be a matter of preference, and seeing it would be consistent to do it like this, well, it wouldn't make things potentially messy ~ Dwarfmp 19:00, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
Well, there doesn't seem to be too much information on why that decision was made for Oblivion. It was done in April 2006 by an editor who hasn't been active on the site for years. And I can't immediately find any related discussion. I understand why two separate pages makes sense, but how to name each of the pages may just come down to an arbitrary decision.... --NepheleTalk 19:05, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
NepheleTalk, as long as you won't cast any spells on me you have my vote to keep things as they are since 2006. --Arkhon 19:11, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Use with Two-Handed?[edit]

By needing one hand for a spell, it would appear that you can't use spells with a two-handed weapon. Ural 13:03, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

reply -
yes this is true, You can favorite your two hander to number 1, and then favorite your spell to number 2.
this makes switching fast during fighting, only have to hit the number buttons. It is slower than in Oblivion though. — Unsigned comment by 67.164.33.239 (talk) at 02:31 on December 1, 2011

No restriction by spell level[edit]

Unlike Oblivion, you are not limited in what spells you can cast by spell level, only by the amount of magicka you have. For example, if you've got the magicka for it, you can cast apprentice-level spells with a skill level of 15. The section talking about this limitation should be removed. — Unsigned comment by 32.159.179.245 (talk) at 02:04 on November 17, 2011

Are you sure? I can't recall if I've even once actually acquired a higher level spell before my skill level was high enough to cast it, definitely not with the Expert and Master level spells... Even if you're technically right, it seems that merchants don't sell the better spells until you've the skill for it (If there are exceptions to this rule, that would be very cool to know). Weroj 13:36, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
You can acquire a spell that's beyond your current skill level in that particular school during the quest First Lessons, i.e. an apprentice level spell of a college that you are only novice in, and you are able to cast that spell without issues. Also I'm pretty sure that you can at least buy apprentice level spells (possibly even higher level ones) from the spell vendors in the college of magic, even if you are only a novice, although I will have to recheck that to confirm if my memory serves me right. --m.harmless 17:27, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
Each spell does have a category: novice, adept, etc. However, this is for the perks that let you cast XXXX spells at half cost. Playing a warrior, I've "learned" spells that I can't cast, because I have 100 magicka and the spell will cost 170 or so. I have quite a number of adept-expert spells but can't cast many of them. --QuillanTalk 17:42, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
Yup, it seems like that to me as well. The spell merchant's inventory seems to be somewhat leveled, as my level 5 character is currently only offered novice and apprentice spells, but I can confirm that as novice in restoration, I could still buy, learn and cast apprentice level restoration spells, like e.g. healing hands. Maybe the spell merchants inventory change in regard to your overall experience level and not to your skill level in any particular school? At least that would be my guess. --m.harmless 18:21, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Spell merchants sell spells based on your level in the skill, so it is "impossible" to buy an expert level spell as an apprentice. There are exception however. You can use the atronach forge to create a spell tome for a storm atronach even if your conjugation level is 1. You could cast the spell if you had enough magicka.

Dual casting[edit]

What does dual casting do, anyway? Does the resulting spell have greater effect than the same spell cast twice? Less? Is it more magicka efficient?

Basically, I'm asking what makes the perk worth the cost. — Unsigned comment by Daedalus (talkcontribs) at 21:08 on November 18, 2011

It is more powerful than two spells of the same type (i.e fire spells do more damage and healing spells heal more) that are being used at the same time but not being combined. For example, lets say a fire spell does 1 damage. You could use two fire spells to do a total of 2 damage but combining them would do say 3 damage instead.RIM 20:57, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
Are we sure about this? 150% increase in damage? Take flames with no
Damage increase perks. It's 8 per second and uses 5 magic. One in each hand
Uses 10 magic for 16 per second. What is it dual wielded? --- Shane
This is not actually true, when you dual wield magic it does less damage than two of the same spell being cast at the same time while draining much more mana. (This is for the constant damage spells, such as frostbite). Dual wieldings only advantage is that it makes some spells like ice spike cause enemies to flinch/stumble, or so I am told.213.81.109.62 00:20, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
- That is true, but more so if you take the perk that causes an "impact shockwave" when dual casting Destruction spells. I do, however, feel that the "dual cast" effect should be listed together with the spells effect listing. i.e. "This dual casting increases the effect length/damage/targets" etc. — Unsigned comment by 75.71.114.55 (talk) at 05:06 on December 1, 2011
---I can confirm with testing that dual casting flames uses more magicka and does less total damage (by the time magicka runs out) than casting 2 flame spells at nearly the same time, but not dual casting. I'm wondering now if this is a bug. — Unsigned comment by 67.164.33.239 (talk) at 04:39 on December 7, 2011
For Illusion spells, dual casting gives you a single, high-level-affecting spell instead of redundant low level spells (there's no point in casting two of the same Illusion spell at all without Illusion Dual-Casting). This allows you to potentially affect a high-level "humanoid" NPC with the "Fury" spell (Base level 6 + 10 for Kindred Mage + 12 for Rage = 28 x ~2.2 = 61ish max level). I have tested this on NPCs up to level 51 - I have been unable to find any eligible targets of higher level.
For Alteration spells, duration-based spells gives you a single spell of ~2.2x the duration (a 60 second spell will now last for 132 seconds). Aetryn 17:55, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
Just ran FNVEdit on Skyrim.esm. There are two game settings: fMagicDualCastingCostMult=2.8 and fMagicDualCastingEffectivenessBase=2.2. These appear to match the experimental values. --Evil4Zerggin 02:21, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

() -- I found the second dual casting perk, the stun one, to be very useful. That is the only reason I dual cast with my caster character. — Unsigned comment by 67.164.33.239 (talk) at 00:57 on December 6, 2011

The Dual Casting section should mention something about Master Spells requiring BOTH hands and whether or not the Improved Dual Casting affects Master Spells. I don't have any practical knowledge, only msg board threads, so I can't personally confirm / deny any facts. That said, it sounds pretty important.
With this in mind, it would mean that in a one-on-one fight with an enemy (maybe even ALL situations, Pacify would actually be way more effective than Harmony. This is because the base Enemy Level of Pacify is 20 and Harmony is 25- Pacify can be Dual Casted for a potential 2.2x effect, while Harmony is stuck at 25. Level 44 vs. Level 25 seems pretty wacky. Makes me wonder if the designers really thought their system through for high-level encounters.

66.46.112.60 18:40, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I've read somewhere else on the wiki that despite ocuppying both hands, master spells can be single cast and dual cast as well. I know for a fact that you can do that to make the spell cost more or less magicka, but I'm not sure if it affects the spell's effect. Also, while training spells, I noticed that dual casting charges a spell noticeably faster than casting it with each hand separately (by pushing both mouse buttons in quick succession, instead of at the same time). I would put this latter bit of information on the main page, but seeing how nobody else said anything about it, I'm thinking it could be just me.--201.1.29.2 15:26, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

I just tested Dragonhide, Harmony and Fire Thrall ingame. Sadly only Dragonhide can be dual-casted. Seems it is more of a bug than a design.145.100.194.152 09:10, 8 December 2012 (GMT)
IIRC, destruction master level spells can be dualcasted. Weird that you can't dual cast harmony and illusion in general, since master spells don't reach level 50 and so don't work against stronger enemies. The thralls aren't meant to be dual casted: dual casting conjuration increase duration of the spell and that's useless for thralls. But I'll check, perhaps it makes the spell quicker to cast, as the person above says.--80.117.59.157 14:49, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

I was working on a small mod for myself to try and fix dual casting, I (accidently) found that if you open the Creation Kit and go straight to Gameplay Settings, without loading Skyrim.esm, You'll find fMagicDualCastingCostMult=1.5 and fMagicDualCastingEffectivenessBase=2.0, also fMagicDualCastingTimeMult=1.5 (instead of 1.0). Just thought it was worth mentioning here --Saith89 (talk) 02:41, 18 March 2013 (GMT)

This section needs a lot of improvement. I want to clarify the difference between double casting (simply casting the spell with both hands) and dual-casting (having the perk and triggering the spells together). The discussion above about whether you can dual-cast master spells and, if so, what it does, hasn't been added to the page. Beyond that, the current paragraph is vague about which spells benefit from dual-casting and what the benefits are, when they do. The Creation Kit has Boolean values for each spell that indicate that indicate whether dual-casting affects magnitude and/or duration, but that still doesn't make explicit all the effects that magnitude has on a given spell. For instance, I've found references on other sites that dual-casting Destruction spells with areas increases the area. Does anyone know if this is true? How does dual-casting affect spells with an over-time effect? Can anyone go through the Creation Kit and dig out the specific values for each spell? This is a lot of information, so I think it would probably be better to put it on the pages for each school, describing which spells can and can't be dual-cast and what effects it has on each of those spells. The specifics matter a lot for whether a given dual-casting perk makes sense.--Iainuki (talk) 22:40, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

Skill Gain.[edit]

From what I can tell, higher level spells cause larger skill increases. e.g. casting an expert spell gives more skill increase than casting a novice spell. This is *unlike* Oblivion, where it didn't matter what spell you cast you always get the same skill increase. I have found that destruction can be levelled very quickly by rapid casting the highest ice spike spell you can use. I got 14 skill increases (from 80 to 94) in a single dungeon using this technique. When I say rapid casting I mean using both hands but NOT dual casting, but instead offsetting each hand by a fraction of a second, so they behave as two separate single handed casts (i.e. press lmb, wait a small amount of time, press rmb). Also it is not necessary to wait for the charge up sound to complete before releasing, and as two separate single handed spells are less powerful than a dual cast, the target lives longer to take more hits. FYI I was using 100% destruction magicka cost decrease enchantments which made this a lot easier. Billw 14:23, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Skill level and magicka cost[edit]

Fortify (magic school) effects apparently reduce the cost of spells. Does this mean the cost of spells normally scales with your skill level in addition to being halved by perks? Or are perks the only way actually gaining skill can reduce costs?166.182.3.30 06:50, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

No, as your skill level goes up the cost of a spell will go down. However the decrease by just leveling up is not very substantial. — Unsigned comment by 66.207.21.185 (talk) at 17:05 on 2 September 2013

Spell Effects and Enemy Levels[edit]

Out of curiosity, do the spells themselves level? For instance, early spells, and even some late spells effect enemies up to level "x", but, being a lvl 40+ character, all enemies I encounter are FAR above the "x" level on 90% of my spells, leaving me really only one or two options that have any respectable effect. I would have thought that as I increase in power, and as my level in that school increases in power, that the spells should scale with me, or I should be able to "update" my spell list with new, more powerful versions.

For instance, the ability to resurect enemies to fight with me. It seems that, even having the most powerful version the class of magic has to offer, I can only "raise" enemies up to level 25 or so, and yet, everything I fight is lvl 40+ to keep up with my character? Or fear/mayhem ect, only effects enemies up to "x" and yet, at this point in my game, there is no enemy UNDER lvl 35+ (excepting scripted, non leveling) meaning all of those are useless spells. What have I missed? I'm rather tired of only using Wall of Fire and shouts, but the walls seem to be the only effective thing short of spamming fireball. It seems like they expected the average player to hit lvl 20~26 and, what, stop playing?Llwynn 19:53, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Spells do not level. There are perks and potions that will assist you in affecting high level targets. Generally the biggest effect is for dual-casting the level-based spell (it usually increases the level by about 2.2x). You could argue that this makes "uninvested" illusion (and similar spells) useless, but "uninvested" destruction becomes fairly useless too by high levels - it just doesn't become completely non-functional. If you want to use Illusion at high levels, you at least need to take the effect-specific perks up to the effect you want to use, and Dual-Casting. That's 5 perks (realistically 7, you will probably want Apprentice and Adept Illusion to reduce costs), but illusion can be really powerful, so that seems reasonably fair. Aetryn 17:55, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
Reply- I'm not completely sure but If you gain skill in say, Destruction, then go to your spell in the menu and notice the number next to it. I think you do more damage per hit as you gain in the skill. Magicka doesnt cost less, but I think you do more damage. The ratio of magicka to damage doesnt seem to get better with the higher level spells either, unfortunatly.
It may be better to use the dual cast perks and use the apprentice level spells.
That isnt true, the damage for destruction spells is the same irregardless of skill. Only perks (and potions apparently, though never used a potion which fortifies destruction damage personally so dont want to vouch for it) raise the damage. JimmyDeSouza 01:28, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Clarification on "Spell Target Levels"[edit]

Is there a clarification on what constitutes a "Weak" "Strong" "Powerful" enemy that some spells effects classify? Perhaps there should be a listing somewhere that examplifies or lists the applicable targets of those spells "i.e skeletons but not draugar, or draugar but not weights/overlords, or overlords but not deathlords" etc for the different levels of possession/fear/reanimating?Llwynn 19:52, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Magicka and Magicka regeneration[edit]

Can anyone confirm how Magicka regeneration and +Magicka regen effects work? Is regen derived by max Magicka or a set rate? Edit: Nevermind. That information is on the Skyrim:Magicka page. I didn't see it there the last time I checked it. =\ — Unsigned comment by 216.8.244.151 (talk) at 01:56 on December 7, 2011

Armor's relation to magic[edit]

In previous the Elder Scrolls games, there was a system in place where being unskilled in your equipped armor lessened the potency of your spells. Is this system still in place, or has it since been removed? I've never had a clear-cut answer, even through testing it myself. — Unsigned comment by 72.177.138.109 (talk) at 20:16 on January 6, 2012

-This is not the case with Skyrim. The method they use in skyrim, is the robe, hood bonuses. You can, however, wear full plate armor and enchant the plus magicka and skill reduction into the armor. Light armor might help if you are using ranged magic spells so you can run around easier. Pure cloth is insane in Skyrim. I don't recommend it. Also, plus magicka is MUCH better than magicka regen, since magicka regen is slow in combat and faster outside. — Unsigned comment by 67.164.33.239 (talk) at 22:28 on January 11, 2012

What effects experience gain?[edit]

The formula for spell cost is well explained. What effects experience gained from casting a spell?

For example, do all expert level spells give the same experience? If not, is it calculated depending on magicka cost? Is it spell specific?

I know that Star Sign/Standing Stones and the Well Rested status effect change exp gain. How is the experience calculated for the actual spell though? 87.115.8.151 17:30, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Illusion Spells and Skill Increases[edit]

I'm noticing that casting light spells isn't increasing my Illusion at all. I understand that spells have to 'do' something in order to increase the skill in Skyrim - no holding down the mouse button like you could on Oblivion.

But light is a passive spell; it doesn't ever do anything beyond light. So is there an indicator anywhere of which spells will actually increase your skills and which don't? — Unsigned comment by 80.229.165.55 (talk) at 09:47 on 30 September 2012‎

Apologies; I've removed the double-post and corrected the skill type. — Unsigned comment by MrMoose (talkcontribs) at 10:33 on 30 September 2012‎
It's generally considered undesirable to correct other people's posts since we can't always be positive that they meant what we think they mean. For that reason, I've reverted the Clairvoyance change, but I've left the others in place since they're more clear-cut.
As to the actual problem, I don't know if anybody's actually figured out how skill gains work for spells. So far, I've never found anything in the Creation Kit about it. I wouldn't be surprised if the skill gain for Candlelight is just really really small, much like Clairvoyance's is—you can cast that repeatedly everywhere you go and you'll be lucky to gain more than a couple of levels out of it the whole time you play your character. I suspect the actual skill gain may be based on both base cost and duration, but that's just a guess. The best easily accessible spell I've found to level Illusion is Muffle. Even at skill level 50, it takes only about 5 or 6 casts to raise your skill (depending on what else you have that affects your skill leveling, of course). Alteration is even easier with Telekinesis, once you get it. The leveling rate on that is almost frightening. Robin Hoodtalk 20:13, 30 September 2012 (GMT)

Armor and magic should be expanded[edit]

Covering absorption vs resistance... That works as a section but having the effects (ergo no effect) of armor as a single small bullet point at the bottom, talking about "armor rating" seems insufficient and an oversight.

In previous Elder Scrolls games, wearing armor had effects on your casting. Not in Skyrim. Wearing armor does not effect casting costs nor time but having an armor value on an item will negate the mage armor perk.

In my book something like the above should be covered and expanded upon in a magic overview article. For those interested in being a pure caster, or caster hybrid, this can effect some decisions (such as the Morokei mask with 100% magicka regen but counting as armor).

Just an opinion, I found my answers by searching the web after reading the article here. "No effects on casting".

98.232.153.40 00:58, 18 October 2012 (GMT)

Added bug[edit]

  • If you attempt to cast two spells but only have enough magicka for one of the spells, you will cast the one spell but the rest of your magicka will be drained and will not be returned. [Verification needed]
I added this bug, anyone else experience or not experience it? I VN'd myself but it is reproducable easily for me and has been this way the whole time I've been playing. Disagreements/clarifications?--Catmaniac66 (talk) 04:30, 24 November 2012 (GMT)
I was able to reproduce this behaviour and worse, but only when casting both spells simultaneously. If I held down one mouse button and then hit the other, I'd be told I didn't have enough magicka and the first spell remained on hold, as it should. If I hit both mouse buttons at the same time, I got my magicka drained and one of at least three things would happen:
  • On releasing the mouse buttons, one would cast, but I'd lose all magicka as described above.
  • I'd lose the magicka for one without it ever casting.
  • I'd lose the magicka for both and my hands would drop from active-casting mode.
I may have observed other effects as well, there seemed to be a lot of random behaviour. Usually once I got it casting only one, it would repeat that behaviour after that, but on loading an older saved game and selecting new spells, I'd see the other behaviours. Robin Hoodtalk 19:16, 24 November 2012 (GMT)
The edits and explainations all sit well with me! Yeah I forgot to specifically say that it was for dual casting. When I cast the same spell simultaneously I get the effect of casting one, failing one, and having no magic. But obviously there are many different possibilities; I'm content with just at least noting that bad stuff can happen when not having enough magic! Thanks for the verification!--Catmaniac66 (talk) 20:15, 24 November 2012 (GMT)

Dual-Casting bugs[edit]

Just noticed some spells [still] have some nasty bugs if you fully charge two single-casts (dual-casting a spell without its magic school's dual-cast perk) and perform the two casts simultaneously.

  • Muffle - you only gain skill exp for one cast.
  • Transmute Mineral Ore - you transmute only one piece of ore, despite performing two separate casts.

At this point I assume the exp gain bug affects all spells, but the part about failed effects isn't clear. For example, Destruction lightning spells dont suffer from it, despite being executed instantly, unlike fire/ice spells or most Alteration spells, which produce projectiles, delaying the spell's effect execution. I can replicate the bugs mentioned with two specific spells from two different magic schools, but unfortunately am struggling to properly assess how widespread the bugs actually are.77.93.24.34 01:42, 27 March 2015 (GMT)

Overview of Skyrim Spells[edit]

I would like to add this sortable table of spells to the overview page. It seems somehow dependent on having a double equal mark header in front of it.


In my first attempt, the table was not properly terminated and it "ate" the rest of the page. That is solved, but I'd like any thoughts as to whether it should be added here? Kalevala (talk) 01:54, 2 January 2022 (UTC)