Skyrim talk:Loading Screens/Archive 1

This is an archive of past Skyrim talk:Loading Screens discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Sorting

Would it be useful or wanted to sort this page into separate sections, with the load screens organized by the subject matter? I'd be willing to take on the task if others agree that this is something we want, but I'd like to get some other opinions before making drastic changes. Also, it says on the main description that "multiple messages may be displayed, all of which are connected via keywords." I was wondering exactly what keywords are used to connect which messages, and also what the conditions are for those that have any. Anyone know? -ABCface^◥ 15:23, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm just updating the conditions right now. After I'm done, I think grouping these would make a lot of sense. (But don't get confused, I'm about to do an interim save before I go for lunch.) I don't think there's any keyword connection at all...I think it's entirely random. You'll see how I'm 99% sure it works when I save. – Robin Hood↝talk 17:13, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Okay, cool, thanks for checking into this. I look forward to seeing what the conditions are, as I've often wondered! ABCface^◥ 18:49, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I'm also willing to sort these into categories, but you called it first ABCface :) . As for the keywords bit, that was my first assumption on how the loading screens worked, without looking at their code. As Robin Hood pointed out, however, it doesn't work that way. It checks if any loading screen "condition"s are met; if so, then that loading screen is shown. I believe that after the first loading screen message is shown, it then moves on to a completely random loading screen message, but I'm not 100% sure.

Can I suggest some categories? This is what I'd do:

General

Creatures

Faction-related

Dark Brotherhood, Companions, etc.

City-specific (or City-related, either works)

Whiterun, Markarth, etc.

Quest-related

Dawnguard-specific (or Added by Dawnguard)

These're just my thoughts, though - you can do it however you want to. • JA^Talk 18:56, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

(←) The categories I had in my head were pretty similar, for the most part. I would definitely include the General, Creatures, Faction-related , and possibly the City ones, but... I would remove the Dawnguard category and add those within the other categories with the {{DG}} template (they're almost all creature/vampire related anyway).
Then, some other categories I'd add would be Magicka, Combat, and Lore, for sure (the remaining DG ones would fit in the Combat category, I think). I'd also group the Vampire & Werewolf -related ones together into their own category (though there's far more vampire-related, and all of those are new with Dawnguard). I'm a little iffy on throwing in a Race category as well, though those can be put into other categories as well.
Anyway, I really don't care who does the sorting, but I do think it would make the page more interesting and user-friendly if they were sorted. ABCface^◥ 19:36, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I'm done. Go nuts! Feel free to correct any formatting or reword anything that needs it...I was getting pretty tired, so I probably goofed on a few things. I toyed with the idea of merging rows that had the same conditions, but I decided against it for now in case any of them get split up during your reorganization. After you're done, we can re-examine whether that looks good or not. Also, the weird numbers that're very often a multiple of 5 + 1 (e.g., 16%) are correct...Bethesda's programmers frequently goof on the random numbers, and they've done so very consistently throughout the load screens. – Robin Hood↝talk 20:11, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Done reorganizing it. Boy, did that take a while. Anyways, there are a few iffy spots that I'll let you look over:

• Winterhold: I had a situation with basically two different loading screen conditions, with a few loading screens each. I decided to sort this part by loading screen condition, and then the messages under each condition alphabetically. I know the wiki doesn't really like "logical" sorting (especially on this kind of thing), because each person might see a different logical order, but being able to combine those conditions together makes it look much better. This wouldn't be a problem, if it wasn't for the following:
• Dark Brotherhood: Here I pretty much threw the rules of alphabetizing out the window and in an extreme bastardization of the above philosophy came up with an awkward, convoluted mess. You can reorganize it how you see fit.
• In numerous spots, the 3D model can be combined across rows (like under Shields). I'd get these myself, but I just worked on this for the past six hours straight, and I need to go to the bathroom, eat, and sleep (hopefully in that order).

Also, I think we should try to get actual images of each loading screen. How badly would that screw up the formatting? And would it be worth it? These are major concerns, and we'd have to discuss them before taking 300 screenshots of loading screens. I think that it would really complete the page, but I'm also okay with not including them. • JA^Talk 08:55, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm honestly not sure what the best choice is for things like Winterhold and the DB. I don't think alphabetization by image name is really going to be all that important once we get some images up, so I'd say go for whatever makes for the best presentation overall. As far as images, I agree completely that we should try to get the real thing. I've downloaded something that's supposed to allow me to convert from the 3D NIF format to a normal image, but I haven't had the chance to play with it yet. Even if it works, it may or may not be desirable to use, as there are issues like making the lighting look realistic, and whether or not the image on its own will even look good or whether it'd be better to simply capture the load screens.

If we do go for a straight capture of the load screens, I'm thinking a mod might be in order to change the conditions so that they load sequentially (if I can do that...not 100% sure). – Robin Hood↝talk 19:26, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

LabyrinthianLoad01/02

I've added a VN to the LabyrinthianLoad01 screen because the conditions are that Revealing the Unseen must be at Stage 60 or higher, and The Staff of Magnus must be at Stage 200 or lower. Since The Staff of Magnus doesn't have any stages higher than 200, however, I believe that particular load screen will be available randomly for the rest of the game. The same conditions apply to LabyrinthianLoad02 as well. – Robin Hood↝talk 19:53, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

I can confirm that both of these loading screens appear for the rest of the game. It can get quite annoying, actually. • JA^Talk 21:21, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Fall of the Space Core

The two loading screens added by Fall of the Space Core, Vol 1 should probably be added to this page. —Legoless 17:43, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

I've added the two loading screens seeing as no one has opposed the suggestion, but please feel free to edit it if it doesn't fit in with the rest of the article. —Legoless 17:16, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

If there are more added by future mods, we might want to separate them out into a separate section, but with only two, Special works. – Robin Hood↝talk 18:41, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Werewolf loading screens

Are we sure that the player can be inflicted with lycanthropy through loading screens?If this is true it contradicts the information on the Werewolf.--Skyrimplayer 22:53, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

What do you mean? There's nothing on this page that says anything like that. Vely^►t►e 23:01, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

I think I see where you're getting that from, but if I'm right, you've misunderstood. It's not that there's a 9% chance of becoming a werewolf if the loading screen appears, it's that the werewolf loading screens will only show up if you're a werewolf, and if you are, there's a 9% chance for each of them that they'll show up. – Robin Hood↝talk 01:09, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Ok,but the conditions say you can turn into a werewolf.I'll fix this if I can.--Skyrimplayer 01:10, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, maybe something like "is able to turn into a werewolf" or similar. The reason I chose that wording was to convey that you don't have to currently be in werewolf form, nor do you have to have ever turned into a werewolf voluntarily, you just have to be able to change into one, and that you haven't been cured. – Robin Hood↝talk 01:17, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Does this include the ring of Hircine then, otherwise it could be worded "has contracted lycanthropy". I don't see "Is a werewolf" as too misleading, but "Player can turn into a werewolf" is misleading. The Silencer speaks^Talk 01:20, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

(←) Silencer, don't you need to be a werewolf (have lycanthropy) to use the ring, or am I incorrect? I haven't used it myself, but that's my understanding of it. Vely^►t►e 01:32, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

I believe you do need to be a werewolf to use it.--Skyrimplayer 01:45, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I thought there was an unresolved discussion about this but I was wrong, you need to be infected to be able to use it. The Silencer speaks^Talk 02:01, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

So.Can we call this case closed?--Skyrimplayer 02:24, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Wait a minute.I believe I have had this loading screen show up without being a werewolf.Has anyone else had this happen?--Skyrimplayer 14:56, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Hm, I'm uncertain about the requirements... it says GetVMQuestVariable Quest: 'C00' ::PlayerHasBeastBlood_var == 1.00. C00 is the quest Take Up Arms, which is unrelated to being a werewolf. I'm not certain what the markup means.

Is there a reason the percentage chance for these two says 9%? The CK is showing 8% (GetRandomPercent <= 8.00). Vely^►t►e 15:52, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

(←) It may be that it simply starts to display when you join the Companions (the Take Up Arms condition would make sense in this case) since joining the Companions is the only way to become a werewolf. I don't really understand the conditions according to game-data, but there might be something to this. ABCface^◥ 16:01, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Okay, first off, the 8% vs 9% is because the "GetRandomPercent" function generates a number between 0 and 99. This means that if it's less than or equal to 8, there's a 9% chance (0 through 8 = 9 chances). Bethesda has historically been very bad with random numbers like this, and obviously that continues to be the case. (Based on Oblivion, I think they had one programmer who understood this, and s/he left before Skyrim. LOL) Either that, or they've changed GetRandomPercent to be 1 to 100, but if so, their own website is wrong (GetRandomPercent).

Second, you're exactly right that the PlayerHasBeastBlood variable on Take Up Arms is what controls the loading screen. The Beast Blood ability is what turns you into a werewolf, and based on the name of the variable and what I've seen in the CK, it looks to me like you have to have that ability available currently (i.e., you're a werewolf, though not necessarily currently in werewolf form, and haven't been cured) in order to see those loading screens. That said, with a widely used variable like this, it's easy for bugs to creep in, so it could be that it's accidentally set somewhere to indicate you're a werewolf when you're not. – Robin Hood↝talk 18:52, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Okay, to clarify RobinHood's first point, he isn't really saying the "badness" is what numbers is generated by that routine - 0-99 is fine. The "badness" is instead to use "equal to or lesser than". Readability would have won over confusion if that test was written as GetRandomPercent < 8.00 instead of GetRandomPercent <= 8.00. Then the intuitive reading of that line of program code, 8%, would have been correct.

(Of course, <= would have worked fine too if the routine had yielded a 1-100 range. Point is, both ranges work equally well and the "magic eight" can be retained in both cases, if only the programmers are competent enough to use them correctly) CapnZapp (talk) 22:24, 7 December 2012 (GMT)

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