Skyrim talk:Damage Health

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Magnitude differing with ingredient combinations[edit]

This seems to be related to the effect magnitudes defined on the ingredients. For example, most ingredients with Damage Health have that effect defined with a magnitude of 2, but Crimson Nirnroot has it defined with a magnitude of 5, and poisons made with Crimson Nirnroot always turn out two-and-a-half times as strong for me. River Betty seems to be the next best, with a magnitude of 4. Woden87 16:46, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

I can confirm this with Restore Health. All ingredients for Restore Health habe either 3 or 5 magnitude. If I combine 2 ingredients with 3 magnitude, I get a potion with Restore Health 14. If at least one ingredient with magnitude 5 is involved, I get a potion with 23 magnitude. 14*5/3 = 23. This seems to fit. With this findings I think, that the maximum magnitude of any involved ingredient determines the strength of the potion. --Killfetzer 17:23, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
Is there a list of the magnitude for each ingredient available somewhere? It'd be useful to have on this page, and for any other alchemical effects where it's relevant. I'm guessing someone with the PC version could extract it from the game data somehow. (I'd have a bash myself, but I'm doing my River Betty hunting on a 360.) -- 21:58, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Where did these numbers come from? (Previously)[edit]

I do not understand where this page page got the multiplier values for Nirnroot, Emporer Parasol Moss, and River Betty. The editor lists 0 for the duration of each of them, and this page suggests that value is actually 10. By my math, however, the value is, in fact, 12. The gold multiplier should equal (MagnitudeMultipler^1.1 * Duration^1.1). I created potions of damage health with each of those ingredients on a level 100 character with no perks. I got potions of value 46, 72, and 126, respectively. If you divide out the base cost of the effect (3), this implies gold multipliers of 15.3, 24, and 42, respectively. If the in-game duration was actually 12, then one would expect multipliers of 15.4, 24, and 42.2, based on the equation above. This jives with the facts. Test it yourself if you want, but those 0s in the table are treated like 12, not 10, and the multipliers for those ingredients are 15.4, 24, and 42.2, not 12.6, 19.7, and 34.5. I will update the page accordingly. 18:27, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

I went ahead and altered this page, the Alchemy Effects page, the Nirnroot page, the River Betty page, and the Emperor Parasol Moss page to reflect these values. 19:00, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
These values are fairly thoroughly tested, so until there's clear proof that they're wrong, they shouldn't be changed. I'll go through your numbers, but in my experience, if they don't match, it's because you've forgotten something. Robin Hood  (talk) 19:45, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
Skill level also affects the potion, from a multiplier of (.225 to 1.5). This could account for the difference of 2 points for the 0's. Silence is GoldenBreak the Silence 19:57, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
The base cost is on level 100 characters. I have been using/revising a program that accurately calculates potion value to assist in leveling. I pulled values directly from the Creation Kit and this site. The Giant's Toe and Boar Tusk multipliers matched my calculations exactly. The only difference was in the damage health potions. I tried it again with a new character who I cheated to get to level 100 and got the same results. The only mods I have are SKSE and SkyUI. I agree that is seems unlikely they are wrong, so I would appreciate someone confirming my results. Try getting a character to level 100 alchemy with no perks or bonuses and make damage health potions with those ingredients. If you get the same values I got then there is no question the gold multipliers are wrong. 20:46, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
The gold multipliers on this page are relative to the base magnitude of 2 (gold multiplier of 2.14), so you would actually have to create a base potion for comparison, using a combination like Falmer Ear and Ectoplasm. And as Silencer says, skill comes into play. In theory, you would want to look at the numbers generated when you have a skill level of 0, not 100. You can do this on a PC by using the console command player.setav alchemy 0. Doing so, however, only helps highlight the inaccuracy of our formulae. Creating a base potion using the Falmer Ear/Ectoplasm combo, I get a value of 2 for the potion, which is below the minimum value of 6 (3 * 2.14, rounded down) that our formulae would suggest it should be. Using in-game numbers that are as low as those generated for Damage Health is, essentially, a fruitless endeavour. Doing the math on higher-valued potions, however, confirms that these formulae are accurate, at least for duration. You can even see that in the cost formula mentioned on the Alchemy Effects page. As it says there, use a durationFactor of 1 if there's no duration, or a durationFactor of duration / 10 if there is. That's just a re-worded version of what's here: use a duration of 10 if there's no duration (which gives durationFactor = 10 / 10 = 1). Robin Hood  (talk) 20:57, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
I am doing this math relative to base duration and base magnitude (i.e. what a typical ingredient does). It is my understanding that this page is referring to duration, not durationFactor. If you assume a duration of 10 then the gold value of the potion will increase by 10^1.1 or approximately 12.6, because the base duration of the effect is 1. For example, the base duration of Fortify Health is 60 seconds. Giant's Toe gives a duration of 300, which is 5 times larger. This will multiply the cost of any potion by a factor of 5^1.1 or 5.9, as the respective page says. If a character is level 100 it is easy to see this, because the final value will be the base cost of the effect multiplied by 5.9. That is to say, a level 100 character with no perks makes a Fortify Health potion of value of floor(82). But if that same character uses a Giant's Toe they get floor(82*5^1.1) because they increased the duration by a factor of 5. By the same logic, when my orc I just created in a clean Skyrim base game cheats up to level 100 alchemy and creates a damage health potion, the value is exactly 3, the base cost of damage health. But when he uses a Nirnroot the value shoots up to 46, which is 15.3 times larger than the base cost. This implies the duration must have been 12 times larger than the base duration because 12^1.1 is approximately 15.3. Since the base duration is 1, we can only conclude that Nirnroot has a duration of 12, regardless of what the Creation Kit says it is, (which is 0). I hope that was clear. (EDIT: I got the wrong cost for Fortify Health) 22:15, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
EDIT: I am sorry, I was using the terminology of "base cost" when I was actually referring the potion value at level 100. That is what the program I have been using/modifying uses because it greatly simplifies calculation. I see that it may not be close to an integer though, which could lead to inaccuracies. That could account for the discrepancy. If the value of a Damage Health potion at level 100 is 3.7 or so, then these values seem to hold.

() Bah! I had a whole response typed out and your edit just made it unnecessary. :) The problem with the Damage Health potions is that the numbers are too small to do meaningful math on. Depending on alchemy level, I can get cost multipliers of anywhere from 19 to 24 for Emperor Parasol Moss, and that was in only a couple of tests. With Fortify Health, though, because the values are larger, the factor holds steadier, and you'll see that as long as you compare a magnified potion with a base potion, the cost multiplier holds regardless of your alchemy level.

As far as durations of 0 go, if you really want proof that the duration is equivalent to 10 seconds and not 12, try mixing up unenhanced potions of Restore Stamina (which has a duration of 0) and Ravage Stamina (which has a duration of 10). Their costs should be nearly identical (cost factor of 25:24). I used Bee/Berit's Ashes and Bee/Charred Skeeverhide. At level 100, the math becomes stupidly easy because the values actually are 25 and 24. That pretty much proves that durations of 0 are treated as durations of 10. Robin Hood  (talk) 22:51, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Jarin root[edit]

I got once an another jarin root looted on a deer corpse (near dragon bridge)

Seems a very seldom event but even so you may get more as 1 ingame
Violaine 19:13, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Off-hand, I don't see anything in the Creation Kit that would cause this to happen. If you can get me a specific location for the deer, I can have a closer look, but it sounds like this is probably the result of a mod. Robin Hood  (talk) 23:01, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
Yes it could be a mod. It was a deer i killed so please don't search for it! I play since long ago without changing my mods so it was really awesome then that happened! Well thanks for your reply. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 03:51 on 6 July 2015
You're welcome. Robin Hood  (talk) 04:33, 6 July 2015 (UTC)