Oblivion talk:Whodunit?/Archive 1

This is an archive of past Oblivion talk:Whodunit? discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Fun Quest

Quite possibly one of the most fun quests in the game :). -Fenir — Unsigned comment by Fenir8 (talk • contribs) on 9. June 2006

Having done all the fighters, mages and thieves guild quests, this is by far the most entertaining (and replayable) quest I've had yet. Don't tell Matilde you're an assassin at the start, it ruins the fun of hearing her banal empty platitudes before you sheathe your weapon (thus raising your personality) and hearing what she really thinks of the others.

The only problem I had with this quest was that after talking to all the guests, I found them rather likeable and felt bad killing them.  :) — Unsigned comment by Klash72 (talk • contribs) on 7. August 2006

Yeah, this one's complicated, with all the relations. I even drew a scheme (to see who hates who), to easier figure out which one I hate the most. Spent two hours I think on this one. Started with the females (since they offer role-playing from the beginning), then Nels because I wanted to see the redguard's reaction when he realised the Nord wasn't the killer, then I killed the rich kid because I wanted to kill Neville last (I hated Neville the most because he hates Nords, and my character's a Nord). This is the only way to make the redguard the last standing, because he won't kill anyone; the rich kid will. It's either up to me, or the rich kid would be the last standing. So when Neville desperately hacked with his axe against the door I killed him, for a powerful ending. Like a movie or something :) 213.112.198.15 15:31, 18 May 2009 (EDT)

Definately a fun quest alright! Just a note, if you have Nels and Neville still alive, Neville will attack and kill Nels. DarkElfsk 05:48, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

It's especially great when a certain glitch happens and one guest kills Nels (it has happened to me) and then wonders who the assassin is. Lem0nhead 00:21, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

I find it amusing that Neville tries in earnest to hack the reinforced door down when there are perfectly good windows nearby that he can shatter. Tamriel, land of the transparent aluminum windows? o.o -- Adrius 27 Dec 2009

I've had it happen before that when Neville and Matilde are the last two remaining, with a high enough disposition, Neville actually suspects Matilde over you, saying something along the lines of "It's either you or Matilde, and my money's on the old lady. I've seen black widows like her before!"

Deleted Text

I have moved the following notes from the main page because they were written in first-person. They need to be rewritten according to the Style Guide before being moved back to the main page. --Nephele 23:28, 21 November 2006 (EST)

• Once you kill a guest, all the surviving guests will immediately know he's dead, even if they don't know you killed him. It's as if you announce you've found the body when you meet them, even though you have no dialog option for that. Thus, the surviving guests begin acting out their innate suspicions noted above. This means that once you get the ball rolling, they'll all be dead in a couple of minutes. I killed Neville while we were alone on the 3rd floor and everybody else was eating dinner on the 2nd. As soon as I came back downstairs, the remaining guests jumped up in a panic, screaming and shouting at each other. At this point, Dovesi killed Nels, then went chameleon and ran to bed on the 3rd floor. I took that opportunity to kill her. When I tried to talk to Primo afterwards, he launched into a rant (without me being able to say anything) about how Matilde had to be the killer, then turned and killed her. Then he let down his guard thinking it was all over, so I killed him.
• For some reason, Neville attacked attacked me as soon as he'd finished his scripted chat to Nels. At first i though it was some glitch (i did have my weapon out), so i reloded the autosave, but he attacked me again. I didnt pull a weapon out, but just blocked him until he died from reflect damage. The only other glitch that has occured on my save is that i had the gray cowl on during the sanguine quest, so my infamy is around 120. -Darkar
• A possible glitch, for me anyway, was after i talked to the doorman Fafnir, and he gave me the key, was that the door would not activate and let me in. I think the only possible fix is to use the console (setstage dark08whodunit 30) or to reload to a previous save, although this didnt work for me.

• Atcually as long as you bribe one of the last people left ( as long as they don't particulary like the person from the get go) then they will kill the other if you mention the others name.

No combustion

In this page, it says that Nels (the drunk nord guy) died on a combustion shock, thats not true. He is actually murthered by the dark elf Dovesi, I saw her on the first floor getting invisible or at least using the magic chameleon (but a very powerful) and then going upsters and... SUPRISE, Nels just fell away and reast in drunk peace. Later, I played again, so I could see her better, and in that same floor she did the spell upon her, and she killed Nels, but also she killed Primo. So you have your hands clean and your objective moving. — Unsigned comment by 200.105.49.40 (talk) on 11. January 2007

A Problem - She was next to nels at the time and did not attack. Other guests accounted for - out of line of fire (detect life on constantly - showed no invisiblity). Also strange launching of Nels vertically is extremely odd as well as the behavoir of the guests (actions disrupted - they all simultaneously went to bed early and changed beds often) after it. In the round I played, no guest tried to kill another. I cannot recreate the event - never happened again the same. My conclusion: a bug or glitch. User:Redgeneral (01:39, 26 February 2007)

In reply to this comment, Nels' vertical launching was probably due to the fact that he has 1 HP, and so any damage causes bodies to ascend rapidly. --Merco 16:34, 14 March 2008 (EDT)

Fancy wiki stuff!

How do you do the fancy, big, bold description on a page? I can't figure out the markup code! Verin Sedai 22:58, 21 January 2007 (EST)

It's done by the quest header template. The text of Oblivion:Whodunit?/Description is automatically included on Oblivion:Whodunit? when you add the "{{Quest Header ... }}" code on the page. You might want to take a look at UESPWiki:Style Guide/Quest Layout for more information about the overall quest format, also Template:Quest Header for what the various options are within the quest header. Feel free to ask if you have any more questions! --Nephele 23:17, 21 January 2007 (EST)

I personally recommend that you talk to one of the mentors here and they should be able to help teach you the "Fancy wiki stuff". --Darth NANAME 20:39, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

Thanks for trying to help answer Verin Sedai's question. But your answer might have been a bit more useful if the original question hadn't been asked 15 months ago. And your feedback might also have been more useful if the question hadn't already been answered. Sorry my answer was obviously so inadequate that you thought Verin needed more help. Maybe I need to go ask a mentor to teach me some of the "fancy wiki stuff" ;) --Nephele^Talk 21:09, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

Checking timestamps is for posers. :D--Darth NANAME 21:20, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

Never detected except when using magic

Has anyone actually been "identified" as the assassin and lost the bonus, without using hostile magic? All 5 targets have only one hit point and die in a single hit regardless of how you attack. Even killing someone with a torch out, 100 points of Light, and not sneaking, in front of all four of the other guests won't set off any alarms. Even if everyone's disposition to you is 0 and they attack you as a result of your kill, you still don't get "identified" and lose the bonus. The only way I've managed to lose the bonus is to use hostile magic instead of a melee/bow attack.

As far as I can tell the whole Assassination Methods and Notes sections can be replaced with simply, "Don't use magic."--Deathbane27 23:16, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

I definitely had the message about being detected pop up. But come to think of it, I'm pretty sure it was after casting a soul trap spell each time, because that's the only odd thing I would have been experimenting with (trying to fill those black soul gems!) So that is consistent with what you're saying. --Nephele^Talk 23:42, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

I wonder if the contrary is true? As in, if you get somebody completely alone, and cast a spell strong enough to kill them in one hit, do you automatically get detected even though there's no witnesses? That would kind of suck for heavy magic-using characters doing this quest... --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 00:53, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

Yes, you do get identified, even if it's a 0-second duration damage spell and the target is the last guest remaining. As far as I've been able to determine, the only way a hostile spell won't make you lose the bonus is if the target is already attacking you (last one left, low disposition, and you talk to them, for example). --Deathbane27 01:03, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

I've given the article an overhaul based on this. Added a section about the poor AI and removed all the info that was redundant as a result, but left in the entries that are deviously evil or just plain amusing. Did it all in one edit in case it needs to be reverted (if it turns out detection actually works in a specific patch version or something).

It IS a very fun quest to role-play (repeatedly), it's just a shame it requires no finesse. --Deathbane27 01:34, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

Not if you're 100% chameleon. Staff of corruption also doesn't seem to work when player has 100% chameleon (dup disappears right away) — Unsigned comment by 71.132.222.196 (talk) on 3. September 2007

It is a great shame this quest is so easy, when there's so much fun to be had. Robed Dawnbringer 04:41, 5 January 2008 (EST)

glitch?

i had 2 more of the people to kill when i had to stop playing so i decided to quickly kill the other 2 for fun. i stood behind one of the two when they were both speaking in sneak mode. then i attacked and one of them died and the other didnt even notice! i just killed the other and got the bonus still — Unsigned comment by 217.41.217.21 (talk) on 30. June 2007

The section "Never detected except when using magic" above pretty much answers your query. --Rpeh^Talk 05:17, 1 July 2007 (EDT)

Game bug?

Has anyone else had the problem of simply not being able to enter the house? I've tried it several times (and I mean, including quitting the game and reloading repeatedly), plus varying things (i.e. removing all clothing etc which the game indicates is a give-away to your identity, such as armour and weapons), I tried finding an alternative entrance round the back, and right now I'm contemplating trying to find what the map is called, then using the console to load it, thus forcing my way in (haven't actually tried doing this yet though). But whatever I do, I can't open the door for love nor money.

I had a similar problem before, where I couldn't enter the Dark Brotherhood's sanctuary - I went up to the door, pressed use, and though it made the sound of recognising that you're using something, it wouldn't open the door. A quit/reload fixed that, but in this case, it's not helping at all, neither is the game making the customary "use" sound when I press the key. That happened every time I tried to use the door from the "abandoned house" side, and still does to this day (though now I can avoid it via the well secret entrance).

I should point out that I have some plugins installed. However, only one affects Skingrad, that one is inside a house and not outside where it might affect this door anyway, and I've tried disabling it and nothing happened. Also, I had the problem entering the Dark Brotherhood sanctuary before I ever installed any files for Oblivion, which makes me think even more that it's a game bug.

If anyone could tell me how to fix this, or even just whether you've ever heard of this problem, it would help a lot. — Unsigned comment by 212.159.86.10 (talk) on 4. July 2007}}

Is the doorman (Fafnir) standing outside the door, and the problem is that after talking to him you can't open the door? Or is the problem that Fafnir is not appearing for some reason?

If Fafnir is there, is it possible that this is just one symptom of the animation bug that can appear after a large number of hours of gameplay with a single character? For example, do you have 200+ hours of playtime with this one character? --Nephele^Talk 21:15, 3 July 2007 (EDT)

Fafnir has spoken to me and given me the key. And this is a relatively new character. I played once, found I was struggling on the missions (I tend to rush straight in and ignore building my character first, so I had a level 3-4 character rushing half-way through the main storyline), but restarted and am working this guy through the game with a more balanced build, starting with the guilds, DB first of all. I think I have about 8 hours gametime with him, nowhere near 200 hours anyway. — Unsigned comment by 212.159.86.10 (talk) on 4. July 2007

I finally remembered to look into this some more and unfortunately couldn't really figure out what would cause this. The key is really just decorative. But the same script that gives you the key also unlocks the front door (using the command SummitmistExDoor1.Unlock). So when you get the key, the door should be unlocked automatically.

I'm assuming that the last quest update that you got was:

I have spoken with Fafnir, the doorman, who appears to be a fellow member of the Dark Brotherhood. He has provided me with the key to Summitmist Manor, which I am to use only after all the guests lie dead. I should now proceed inside and meet the other guests.

If, however, you've already received the following quest update, then that would be one explanation for the problem. The next update is:

I have arrived at Summitmist Manor. I must now kill the unlucky guests -- Matilde, Dovesi, Primo, Neville and Nels. If I can eliminate each guest secretly, without any witnesses, I will receive my reward and a very valuable reward. If I am discovered, the contract will be complete, but any bonus will be forfeit.

At that point, another script locks the door again. But you shouldn't receive that quest update until you get inside the house.

In any case, given that you're on the PC, I'd suggest trying in the console to use the command SummitmistExDoor1.Unlock, and seeing whether that fixes the problem. --Nephele^Talk 00:01, 12 July 2007 (EDT)

I have exactly the same problem, there is simply no way for me to do the quest as the door will not open. It makes no noise, it just doesn't open. The code you gave doesn't work either, is there any other way? I would enjoy doing the quest... — Unsigned comment by 85.240.222.104 (talk) on 30. August 2007

I've had the same problem and used coc SkingradSummitmistManorBasement to place myself in the basement of Summitmist Manor, then left the basement. Everything carried on as normal. For some reason, placing myself straight on the ground floor didn't work. --Rpeh^Talk 07:56, 30 August 2007 (EDT)

Summitmist Manor

Any word on using the newly vacant Summitmist Manor as a house? If the crates and chests are safe, this would be one of the best quest rewards in the game. It is located directly across the street from Rosethorn Hall, and has equal size and storage. -Motoma (17:34, 8 July 2007)

No, unfortunenately most containers are not safe in Summistmist Manor. The only containers that don't respawn their inventory (i.e. they are safe) are the two locked chects upstairs, and the chest Neville gets his equipment from. Also a few containers in the basement don't respawn as well, but it is not easy to identify them among the other containers. --Timenn 12:14, 8 July 2007 (EDT)

Easy Kill?

Instead of raising their disposition to the max, I decided to lower it. However, when I got to zero and exited the menu, the selected guest would start to attack me. I could kill him/her without being detected. I guess that would be an easy way to complete the mission. Just lower their disposition and watch as the remaining guests kill him/her. --Vesna 8:27, 3 September 2007

That'd be one easy way. I personally made a collection of permanent Bound Boots with constant effect fire-damage on self, and reverse pick-pocketed a pair onto each houseguest... then just waited. The two women were sleeping at the time so they put them on and died when they woke up. Neville and Trebonius put theirs on when they went to get their combat gear and simultaneously died. Finally, Nels just attacked me and fell foul of my Reflect Damage gear. I then retrieved the boots and left. ~ SotiCoto 13:22, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

If only the rest of the game was as well-scripted as this...

Ive replayed this quest many times trying to get every bit of dialog from the characters. Its taking a bit of time, as the number of dead and the dispositions of the characters towards one another affects what they say. I havent even tried this mission with a low disposition. Definitely one of the more entertaining missions. I only wish Bethesda would have paid more voice actors and made the rest of the game dialog as unique and entertaining as this quest. — Unsigned comment by 209.134.75.234 (talk) on 14. May 2008

Blind, deaf and dumb?

Why does the section "Blind, Deaf and Dumb (Yet very talkative) state that any weapon hit will not be detected? If that were true there wouldn't be much meaning to this quest. Plus, I have attacked someone while another person was watching and it forfeit my bonus, so I'm just wondering if this should be changed to reflect the facts more accurately. — Unsigned comment by Figgy (talk • contribs) on 27. May 2008

Because it is true, as ridiculous as it sounds. You can, quite literally, walk into the house and just hack everyone down without making any effort to be stealthy, completing the quest in a matter of seconds without forfeiting your bonus even though everyone sees you slaughtering the others in plain sight. --Aliana 08:32, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

The section should be renamed; they detect me if I kill them with melee. In my version, that is. My version is Xbox-360, fully patched, and i've downloaded the Shivering Isles. Therefore, it appears to be version-dependent.79.66.99.135 17:08, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Hostile Magic

The latest edit to the article changed "Use of any hostile magic will void the bonus, even if you and your target are alone on the map (i.e., in the basement) or the target is the last one remaining. The only time it is safe to use hostile magic is if someone is already attacking you." to "Use of any hostile magic will void the bonus has been disproved, using an invisibility spell, then casting a hostile magic, while the target is alone, will not result in losing the bonus." while not providing any information as to how it had been disproved and under what circumstances. I'm going to change it back and VN the paragraph in question instead. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 14:08, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

I remember an instance where I used magic. Using the basic flare spell from the start of the game, I killed Dovesi Dran. I still got the bonus. I attacked from behind, I think it depends on what type of spell you use, so if you use damage per second, even for one second, an alarm will be raised, unlike using damage on hit spells.-Puddle 07:02, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

Can you try to recreate that please? I just spent an hour - literally - using touch spells and target spells; shop-bought spells and created spells; 100% chameleon or invisibility and 100% visibility; alone with the target and in front of everybody else. I could find no situation in which I got away with casting a spell. Conversely, walking up to an NPC in conversation with another and chopping them in half with a claymore never caused me to be detected. Believe me, after an hour of testing this, there was quite a lot of satisfaction in hacking everybody to bits! In short, if there's no definite contradiction with details inside a week, I'm taking the VN back off the note. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 12:51, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

My guess is it may have to do with what version of the game you are running. You may want to try the old version by re-installing the game and then the newest update to see if it will change the outcome Dr. Kilereren 14:11, 7 July 2008 (EDT)

Ever-determined to forfeit the bonus, I played the quest through recently by casting a nifty little 50-foot Fire Damage blaster all around the Manor. I could not help but notice one curious thing: opening fire immediately after exiting the first conversation with Matilde did not forfeit the bonus. From my repeated run-throughs with this blaster, I noticed that the only time my character was detected using magic was after Neville and Nels began their scripted argument. I wonder if someone could check on the quest scripting at the moment of this conversation and see if the detection criteria kicks in then. —Dark Spark 05:23, 12 March 2009 (EDT)

Does Frenzy work?

The article suggests using Frenzy to get the guests to kill each other. But the guests are members of the "Doomed House Guests" faction, which gives them a Disposition boost of 100 torwards each other. Because of this, I really can't see how they would ever attack each other. I did cast a Frenzy spell once, and I only ever managed to get the guests to attack me. Nifhelton 13:06, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

Their dispositions may change over the course of the quest, which causes them to attack eachother based on who they suspect. If this is the case, check the individual's aggression to see how strong the Frenzy spell would need to be for them to attack anyone they don't like. Dr. Kilereren 14:15, 7 July 2008 (EDT)

I've used Frenzie on them, and it does work. Though because of their low aggression, you'll need 2 differerent frenzie spells (I used 2 "Frenzie up to level 25" spells) for them to become hostile. However, since they're at different parts of the house, it won't be particularly effective. I suggest using a command humanoid spell (any will do, these guys are all level 1) to first gather them all up in one spot. Then use 2 AOE Frenzie spells to get them pissed off and attack eachother (though they might attack you instead!). Because of their 1HP, who wins the fight is almost completely a matter of luck, but Dovesi has a slight advantage because she can also summon a skeleton. --Zirakseez 17:02, 14 December 2008 (EST)

Night Mother's Blessing

In the notes section it says "If you don't want the Night Mother's Blessing, but you still want to complete the quest without getting caught, use the console command player.removespell CBD13 to remove the blessing."

What would be the purpose of not getting the blessing? It seems like it only has positive effects on your skills? BigRussian 05:08, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

You might be trying to maximise all your skills and only get the blessing after you had already got everything to 100. Just a thought. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 05:25, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

The Night Mother's Blessing is added as an Ability, which means it affects the base value of the rewarded Skills. The only problem with that is if any of those Skills happen to be your Major Skills: you are esentially getting 2 free skill points without any of them counting towards your next level-up. If all five Skills in the Blessing happen to be your Major skills, you will actually lose an entire level-up (5 Skills x 2 points per Skill = 10 Skill points) because those five Skills will essentially reach 100 when, in reality, they should still have been at 98! —Dark Spark 11:45, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

Isn't it possible to get around that issue by using a Drain Skill spell and then training the extra two points to get to a natural 100? This exploit is thus a way to get around the negative effects here, with no impact on your final level-up or final skill level -- in a sense this is the best non-exploitive way to use the exploit (if you get what I mean). The only "real" harm would be if you mistakenly expected the added skill points were going to contribute to you current levels attribute bonuses. Still, if you're going for 5/5/5 or 5/5/1 you still have to waste some to get all your levels in (you can't level up once you attributes are maxed).--DoubleGrande 09:11, 27 February 2009 (EST)

Not possible. Effects are applied to your character in various ways, which you can see when you highlight a particular effect in the appropriate Spells tab that shows exactly what is affecting your character at the time. You will see effects applied to your character either as a Spell, Poison, Potion, Enchantment, or Ability. The Night Mother's Blessing gets applied as an Ability. This makes it the equivalent priority of any racial or birthsign power granted to your character. It is treated as a core aspect of your character and cannot be counteracted by a Drain Skill spell nor enchantment. —Dark Spark 02:45, 20 March 2009 (EDT)

could this be fixed using this bug

Dovesi / Nels / Neville spell confusion

(moved from the article)

• Dion will occasionally conjure a weapon(usually an axe) and strike down Nels shortly after you enter the house. There seems to be no reason behind this except for a glitch of some sort. This can be quite amusing as everyone will begin to become hysteric over someone being killed by an "unknown" assassin, even when she commited the murder in front of every person within the house. Confirmed. Ive seen Neville conjure a weapon and kill Dran on the spot before running upstairs and going to sleep.

I've moved this because it's utterly confused. Dion, for instance, isn't even in the house. Neville can't conjure a weapon because he doesn't have any conjuration spells. To cap it all we have awful writing, bad grammar and terrible spelling. If somebody can understand who is being talked about and what exactly happens, please fix this up. Until then it should stay here. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 07:03, 19 February 2009 (EST)

Area-of-Effect Enchanted Weaponry

The article currently states that magic damage from an area-of-effect attack cast by an enchanted weapon will not alert the other guests. I have personal experience that this is not the case. Determined to get this quest over with in the quickest manner possible at forfeiture of the bonus, I crafted a bow with a very wide area-of-effect Frost damage spell. I shot Neville from a sneaking position and, with this single arrow, killed everyone inside the manor with the Frost blast cast by the enchanted bow. It, as I hoped for, caused me to be 'detected' and I lost out on the bonus. —Dark Spark 15:54, 8 March 2009 (EDT)

Moved from main article

Upon entering the manor, speak to all the guests and raise their dispositions until they confide in to you about what they think of each other. Talk to Antonius about Dovesi. Then tell Dovesi to go wait upstairs. However, wait until Neville goes to sleep. make sure no-one can see you, and kill him. Then go kill Dovesi. Speak to the guests. Kill Antonius. Speak to Nels. If your disposition high enough, he'll kill Matilde, and then you can finish him off.

I moved this from the main article because there are so many methods, we don't need to list each one. I put it here because there could be argument for providing it, but it would need to be re-written. --GK^Talk2me 02:38, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Agatha Christie note

Well, it's a note only vaguely related to the quest or the game in the first place. But the note is inaccurate. The original title of the book was not "Ten little indians", it was infact "ten little n-----s". (self censored on my part since I'm not sure what the community attitude might be towards such language) The note should either be made accurate, or if felt more appropriate, just removed. (For instance, the reference to it's original English publication name could be removed) — Unsigned comment by Lamey (talk • contribs) at 07:38 on 21 September 2009

You're right, the note was inaccurate, but from what I remember (and it's been a while), I don't see that many similarities here that aren't in every other "Whodunit" novel in existence, pretty much. I've removed the note entirely for now, pending stronger proof of a connection of some kind. As for the word "nigger", you're reciting facts about a historical book on a talk page. I personally don't see anything wrong with that. Calling someone a nigger, however, would be completely unacceptable here. Still, when it comes to the article page, I probably would've called it "And Then There Were None" and left it at that. :) —Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 09:07, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Nevile doesn't like high infamy

When I entered the house and finished talking too the person, I tried too wait ( I don't know why, it's sort of a habit of mine) but couldn't because apparently, Nevile read as an enemy and tried to attack me when he heard me. Anyone else have this problem? My infamy is 48 if it matters. — Unsigned comment by 97.122.222.250 (talk) on September 26, 2009

Bugs explained

I added some bug descriptions to the main page, don't know if my changes persist, since the mods usually remove most of my changes, but here goes, I'll just add my comments here on the talk page. Let me explain some things in detail:

Use of any hostile magic will void the bonus, even if you and your target are alone on the map (i.e., in the basement) or the target is the last one remaining. The only time it is safe to use hostile magic is if someone is already attacking you

This statement is found on the main page and is pure nonsense. All NPCs can be killed using Damage Health spells, as long as nobody detects you when you cast the spell and as long as you kill them with a single spell. I've done it and I can verify that it works. Use either Chameleon 100% or Invisibility.

If Neville kills Nels and you select "Nels" in the conversation topic while talking to Neville, he will say "One less Nord in the world is something I'd normally cheer about, but the fact that he was murdered by a fellow guest does put a damper on things." Seems he's forgotten it was him who killed the Nord. This bug only occurs if you urge Neville to kill Nels in the initial greeting. If, on the other hand, you select the "Say Nothing" conversation option in Neville's greeting and use the "Nels" topic to turn Neville on Nels, Neville will kill Nels all the same, yet he will just wander around the house afterwards, instead of breaking down the front door with an axe, as he is supposed to.

When Neville is about to kill Nels, he believes him to be the killer, stating that "I've searched every inch of this house. It's sealed up tight. There's no way in or out, and there's nobody hiding anyplace." However, after he kills Nels he will proclaim that there's still an assassin in the house, which makes no sense: "Well, that's it, my friend. We're the last. And that damned assassin is still hiding out in this house somewhere."

This quest is buggy like hell and is difficult to fix. These bugs are NOT fixed by the Inofficial Oblivion Patch. If anybody is interested in fixing this mess through the TES, here's how I've done it:

Open Neville's conversation options and change the following:

Dark08Choice4A: Add the following line to the Result Script (don't forget to compile):

set Dark08Whodunit.NevilleConvinced to 1

GREETING: Line "Well, that's that. The killer is dead, and this nightmare is just about over. All we have to do now is find a way out of here.":

-Add the following to the Result Script:

BattleAxeNev.Enable

Set Dark08Whodunit.NevilleDoor to 1

-Add the following condition to the conditions list:

GetQuestVariable->Dark08Whodunit.NevilleDoor == 0

GREETING: Line "Well, that's it, my friend. We're the last. And that damned assassin is still hiding out in this house somewhere.":

Check "Goodbye" checkbox. Player shouldn't be allowed to select topics at this point in the conversation with Neville, as the game doesn't provide replies for all possible outcomes, which may result in some weird replies by Neville. This line won't even be used any longer if Neville indeed kills Nels, but it will still be used for any other outcomes.

While all NPCs have just one point health, this is actually equivalent to 6 points health on the hardocore difficulty level. Sometimes, when Neville is about to kill Nels, he will cast a Restore Health spell on himself, increasing his health to 26 hit points, which is equivalent to 156 points on hardcore difficulty level. Since you are supposed to kill all residents with a single hit in order to avoid detection, this can make it impossible to finish the quest appropriately, since dealing 156 points with a single spell or weapon hit requires a very powerful character.

To fix this, remove LL2Crusader100 levelled spell list from Neville's character sheet in the TES (SpellList tab)

WRFan 04:27, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Your work at extensive testing and evaluation of formulaes and statements on this site is certainly appreciated. Though you have a habit of not waiting for other editors to respond, or check the results for themselves, which might have resulted in some of your edits being reverted. May I advice you to wait a bit longer before making actual changes after posting on a talk page, to give other editors time to respond?

This quest is indeed one of the buggier ones, and the result is the article is somewhat cluttered with false theories and workarounds. I think the best way to deal with this article is to avoid any mentioning any order of assassinations. Instead we should focus on extending the details of each quest, and how to lure them away from the rest. The bugs should be addressed seperately, and be checked which bugs actually happen all the time (instead of in rare instances). --Timenn-<talk> 08:25, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Follow-up on VN tags

I've just extensively verified the claims of the two VN tags. It seems that detection is buggy at the engine level, as the scripting should work fine as is. If you're attacking with any kind of melee weapon, including your fists, the detection will never be set off as far as I can tell. If you use ranged weapons, you will only be detected if you're visible and someone else sees the kill. Finally, if you use hostile magic, you will be detected if you're visible even if there's nobody around. —Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 02:46, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

New bugs

While writing this I am experiencing some heavy bugs while doing this quest. First off, Methredhel has entered the house. She came while I was sleeping to tell me where to meet the Gray Fox (quest: Turning a Blind Eye), and now she can't get out! She just stands in front of the door and does nothing. I don't know what the consequnces will be yet, as I've not killed all the guests yet.

I don't think it would have been a problem, if not for this; Nels the Naugthy is stuck in the table on the second floor (the table right where he usually stand and drinks)! Here's what happened; Primo Antonius, Dovesi Dran and Matilde Petit were all sitting around the table I described earlier, and finally decided to eat the poisoned apples I had put in their invetories. They died shortly after each other, and Nels started walking towards them. I though he was reaching for another poisoned apple that I had placed on the table, just in case, but instead he walked right into the table and is now stuck. I hoped that I could kill the others in the basement or top floor, so that Methredhel wouldn't notice, but now that Nels won't move...maybe it all works out, and I will surely update when I'm done, but I guessed that it would be worth mentioning anyways...This is my first time ever writing anything on this site, so if anyone would like to add it to the article, it would be really cool :) — Unsigned comment by 62.249.176.154 (talk) at 21:35 on 17 February 2010

Well, this will be my update. Nels got out of the table, and I killed him and Neville without Methredhel noticing. The only problem left is that Methredhel won't leave the house, but as I figured out, that bug is already explained in the article. But if anyone nows if this hinders my progress in the Thieves Guild Quest-line, or if there is a way to get her out, I would really appreciate your help ;) — Unsigned comment by 62.249.176.154 (talk) at 21:43 on 17 February 2010

It's probably a bit late for you at this point, but for any future readers who are having this problem: see the bugs section of Turning a Blind Eye for notes on how it may affect your Theives Guild progress. Fast travelling far away from Methredhel for a period of time might let her escape from being locked in, but there's no guarantee. If you're on the PC, you can use the console to let Methredhel out. Just type prid 35642 and then on a new line moveto player and Methredhel should appear nearby. Just be sure that you're somewhere she can get out of when you do this! If you're on a gaming console, you'll probably just have to hope for the best. ‒ Robin Hood↝Talk 21:26, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Nels

Nels is the only guest that even with maxed disposition, he will still recognize you as the murderer if you killed the rest guests yourself. And Corevette789 is an idiot for reverting it ((Undo revision 547837 by 80.240.19.148 (Talk)sorry, it looks like you were detected ot subject to a glitch ive done this before)). 80.240.21.214 10:05, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Your assertion about Nels seems to be correct, so I've restored it. Please refrain from insulting other editors, however. We all make mistakes. ‒ Robin Hood↝Talk 21:14, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Hi idiot here, I was fairly certain it would have been mentioned already, and I was also pretty sure that I had had him as the last survivor before. Just leave a comment here if you think it is still correct and someone will most likely test it and come back with a reply like what has happened here. I just ask that you do not insult anyone in the process.--Corevette789 21:21, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Nightshade

Sorry but I don't buy this. I know Nightshade is an ingredient, but it's not "food". Ingredients have a flag that indicates whether or not they are food items, which controls whether they will respawn and whether or not NPCs will eat them. For instance, apples have the flag set but Troll Fat doesn't.

Just in case, I went into the game and tested it myself. I removed all the food from the house, dropped several nightshade petals around the place (and even used the console to add 5 petals each to the other guests' inventories) then waited for the Eat packages to start. Instead of eating the nightshade, everybody attacked Nels to get the mead that respawns in his inventory. When that was gone, they wouldn't eat anything at all and kept sitting down and standing up again.

As one more check, I dropped a couple of poisoned apples (marked as Food) and they ate them.

In other words, the guests won't eat nightshade. Please can somebody else check this? rpeh •T•C•E• 20:27, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Could you check Nirnroot? I dropped both Nirnroot and nightshade around the house, and Matilde either nightshade or Nirnroot and died. Sorry for the trouble. But I am sure she ate one of the two.--Arch-Mage Matt^Talk 21:15, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

I don't need to: Nirnroot is classed as food, as described here. So they will eat it. I'll leave you to correct the article. rpeh •T•C•E• 21:25, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Sorry for the confusion. --Arch-Mage Matt^Talk 21:29, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Moved From Main Article

I've moved the entire "Guide" section here because it seems inappropriate for the article. If we decide it should stay, it at least needs some rewriting and restrictions, else we'll end up with everyone's idea of "who should kill who in what order".

Upon entering the manor, speak to all the guests and raise their dispositions until they confide in to you about what they think of each other. Talk to Antonius about Dovesi. Then tell Dovesi to go wait upstairs. However, wait until Neville goes to sleep. make sure no-one can see you, and kill him. Then go kill Dovesi. Speak to the guests. Kill Antonius. Speak to Nels. If your disposition high enough, he'll kill Matilde, and then you can finish him off.

Alternative:

Talk to Matilde and agree to her offer to split the gold 50/50. Tell her to search in the basement. Follow her and kill her in the basement. Tell Dovesi to go to bed, as she is stressed by the murder. Kill her while she is sleeping. Kill Antonius while he is downstairs by the front door (Nels is upstairs, Neville is sleeping). Talk to Neville. Provided your disposition is high enough, he will kill Nels and chop at the front door with an axe, trying to get out. Sneak up on him from behind and finish him off.

Alternative:

Talk to Maltilde and agree to her offer to split the gold 50/50. Tell her to search the basement. Then go and tell Dovesi that Antonius wants to speak with her upstairs in his room. Go to the basement and kill Maltilde. Then go up stairs, make sure Neville is asleep, and kill Dovesi. Once you kill her go across the hall and kill Neville. Nels and Antonius will be the only ones left. Talk to Antonius about Nels and he will attack Nels. Or you can talk to Nels and he will attack Antonius. Kill the winner.

Alternative:

Talk Maltilde downstairs and dispatch her. Wait for Primo and Neville to head up stairs and sleep. Kill them. Raise Dovesi's disposition and she will attack and kill Nels. Eliminate her afterwards.

--GK^talk2me 04:11, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Unlike all the other DB quests...

this one is missing the Rewards section under detailed walkthrough.

I was originally going to add it myself, but I'm still getting used to the format for that and I'd probably screw it up. Just putting this out there, so if it NEEDS to be fixed, someone who is more experienced can do it.  :) — Unsigned comment by Justeazy (talk • contribs) on 5 April 2010

That's explained in the first paragraph under "Detailed Walkthrough". If you think something needs to be changed, try looking at the edit tab of another page to see what it looks like in a different layout. Don't worry about it too much; if you're genuinely trying to help the wiki, we don't mind reverting mistakes or helping you figure out how to do it. --GK^talk2me 20:09, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

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