Oblivion talk:Magic Overview

Possible to have a skill so high spells are free?

Does the game actually allow you to cast free destruction/etc. spells if your... say... for example... destruction/etc. skill was at 120? — Unsigned comment by 99.245.135.154 (talk)

Skill increases past 100 do nothing for you (except for acrobatics and athletics). So a destruction spell costs exactly the same amount for a character with 100, 120, or even 250 destruction skill. --Nephele^Talk 23:15, 24 June 2007 (EDT)

There is a plugin for Oblivion Script Extender called Elys Uncapper, which raises the skill (and stat) limit to 200. That might be what you are looking for. Spells will never be free, but have a minimum cost of 1 magicka. I tested this in-game by using player.SetAV Conjuration 200 and all spells costed 1 magicka. Coupled with mana regeneration this gives you unlimited casts. pwijnands 2 May 2008

Other Concerns vs. Tips

There does not seem to be a major distinction between the two. Is it alright if we combine them? --Tennessee Ernie Ford 20:01, 28 June 2006 (EDT)

Healing spells does not have to hit an injured target

Quote:

A healing spell isn't considered useful unless the target of the spell is injured. So casting Heal Minor Wounds on yourself only counts for increasing the skill when your health is less than max.

I can disvalidate that - I once trained my Restoration skill several levels (5-25) by chain-casting Heal Minor Wounds on myself. My health was at max all the time. --MiSP 09:45, 25 May 2006 (EDT)

Train magic skills by means of Reflect Spell effect

It seems you can actually train magic skills by wearing something that gives you Reflect Spell. I have an enchanted ring that gives me 35 % Reflect Spell, and after getting hit by enough paralyze spells, my Illusion skill actually gained a level, even though I never have cast any Illusion spell.

I consider this a bug, but if you have another opinion, feel free to change the heading. --MiSP 09:52, 25 May 2006 (EDT)

"Playing Oblivion for about 2 years now i can't agree with that. Having "Frostcrag Spire" plugin installed, i like to increase different skills beating vault guardians (which, as you know, constantly cast paralyze spell). In my current game my character never used illusion spells. With 75 pts spell reflection, paralyze spells are reflected often enough. After killing all vault guardians one by one i haven't noticed any progress in illusion skill. Not only that, at level 1 my character had illusion skill at 10. Now, at level 20, illusion skill is 12 (only because of 2 skill books read)."

The above quote was taken from the official forums, verification of this bug may be needed Rhomphaia 13:55, 20 February 2008 (EST)

http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=812074

Thread got locked almost immediately. I posted "I tried it out with Destruction and I can confirm that Ekzebiche is correct. To make sure that all spells were reflected and also see if it was due to Reflect Damage I made test amulets of 100% Reflect Damage and Reflect Spell and let several enemies cast Destruction spells on the player (fresh character, skill at 5, no progress indicator movement.) The progress indicator didn't budge and all the spells were reflected as all the enemies died while I just stood there. Same with both test items." I uploaded the tiny test mod here if anyone wants to give it a try. This non-bug also appears on the Glitches page.Kivan 15:14, 20 February 2008 (EST)

Okay, I must have been mistaken. I've removed the bugs section from the article and am currently hanging my head in shame :) –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 15:23, 20 February 2008 (EST)

It happens. :^) I pulled it off the Glitches page for consistency and referred to this page. Kivan 16:06, 20 February 2008 (EST)

Before we completely destroy all evidence of this: is there any chance that this is an issue that got fixed by a patch? I don't see this specifically mentioned in the patch notes, but in version 1.1.511 they did make some changes to how spells interact with the player. MiSP originally posted this information before the first was released, which would appear to provide some confirmation that it worked pre-patch. If it was true in the original release of the game, we probably want to keep the information on the article (with a note that it was fixed) because there are people who intentionally avoid installing the patches. --Nephele^Talk 16:22, 20 February 2008 (EST)

Done... I have every EXE archived, so I grabbed 1.0.228 (off my first-pressing T-Rated Oblivion DVD) hex-edited my minimod so that it would load, switched to the old pre-SI ESM and tried it out. It still never happened and the spells were all being reflected as everything ended up dead. Also for completeness tried it with both Reflect Damage and Reflect Spell effects (and Reflect Damage did not reflect spell damage only weapons.) Kivan 21:56, 20 February 2008 (EST)

Thanks, Kivan, for checking that :) Unfortunately, I doubt we'll ever be able to find out from MiSP what else might have been going on in his case, but it sounds like it's safe to say that Reflect Spell had nothing to do with it. --Nephele^Talk 23:27, 20 February 2008 (EST)

Shackles instead of gloves?

Don't the shackles, the ones you start the game with, count as any kind of armour? Otherwise, they could be an extremely valuable item - non-armour enchantable wearable you can use on the "gauntlets" slot! Keep 100% spell efficiency and get the "gauntlets" slot used! :) --Vook 18:14, 30 May 2006 (EDT)

I had the same idea when I restarted my game yesterday. Confirmed -- Wrist Irons do not count against spell efficiency. However, I currently lack the assets to enchant them. --Ryv 18:48, 30 May 2006 (EDT)

I can confirm this as well, as it is something I do with pretty much every character I have. It is also mentioned in the page Oblivion:Useful Enchantments#Mages Clothing of Protection. Which it may be useful to have a link to from this page since it points out a way to have protection like armor but maintains 100% spell efficiency. 65.41.115.64 16:06, 22 May 2008 (EDT) Jarrod

Exact Magicka Cost

Does anyone know the exact formula to determine the Magicka cost of spells? As far as I know, it depends on the base cost of the spell and your skill level in the corresponding school. Do Intelligence, Willpower, or Luck figure into that equation at all? --TheRealLurlock 00:52, 23 June 2006 (EDT)

As far as I know, Luck makes a huge difference. --MiSP 16:28, 25 June 2006 (EDT)

Luck is an incredible difference. The luck attribute is factored in to your 'equivalent' magicka level. For an example, let's say a character has 50 luck, 50 destruction. He creates a spell that costs him 50 magicka. Let's say that he raises his luck to 100 and his destruction is still 50. The spell might cost only 25 magicka now (this is just an example - the accuracy of the magicka costs is unknown) -- 74.226.104.194 12:24, 26 August 2007 (EDT)

The equations provided in the article for magicka costs are completely accurate; these questions were asked more than a year ago, and since then the article has been significantly rewritten and expanded, including the equations for magicka costs. Yes, your luck makes difference, effectively increasing your skill levels (skill levels increase by 0.4 points for every point in luck), as detailed in the article. You may also want to check the Spell Making page, where the equations for the magicka cost of custom spells are provided. --Nephele^Talk 12:45, 26 August 2007 (EDT)

In case anyone is interested, I've determined the Game Settings that are involved in this formula. The "correct" way of writing it is as follows:

fMagicCasterSkillCostBase + ( fMagicCasterSkillCostMult * ( 1 - ( Skill / 100 ) ) )

Obviously, "Skill" is still the 'modified' version based on Luck. --DragoonWraith 00:27, 5 January 2008 (EST)

I don't know if any of the regulars will read this any time soon, but more should be said about Luck affecting the Magicka cost of spells here and in the Zero Visibility quest (and possibly on the Dryad page, but I haven't checked if the drain spell has the same effects). Doing the Zero Visibility quest, I didn't wear Ancotar's Ring and my character's Luck was damaged to 0 (I cast both scrolls) and was frightened later on when I could't cast any of my regular spells. Haveing just done the quest I came to the wiki to see if there was a glitch with that quest or if Ancotar's spell had other scripted side effects. After a long search, and checking all my skills and attributes, I finally realized that Luck less that fifty had RAISED my spells magicka cost; and the raise was very significant. So, while it may seem obvious when looking at the formulas, I don't think this ramification should go unmentioned as it is a big shocker and breaks the game until the player figures out lucks involvement. — Unsigned comment by 24.96.234.29 (talk) on 5 July 2009

It's quite clearly stated in articles that Luck benefits all your skills a bit. A sudden drop to 0 Luck from 50 means all your skills dropped by 20 points. For magic skills it means a significant increase in Magicka cost for spells. --Timenn-<talk> 15:20, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Change a paragraph

The latest addition by Noran the Axe (actually the whole paragraph) needs to be reworded, as it is a self-contradiction. I am too tired right now. --MiSP 16:52, 29 August 2006 (EDT)

does magicka increase after i max out intelligence?

hmm? i have 100 intel when i level up again wil my magicka go up too? — Unsigned comment by Term1nator (talk • contribs)

Your magicka never goes up just because you increase your level (unlike, for example, Health). So, no, once you have 100 intelligence your magicka will not go up when you level. Your magicka will, however, go up if you fortify intelligence or use something like the Oghma Infinium to increase your intelligence. --Nephele^Talk 12:34, 16 April 2007 (EDT)

Spell Duration Question

If you take a spell that's 10 damage for 10 seconds, is that 10 damage over 10 seconds, or 10 damage every 10 seconds? - 122.148.180.136 00:22, 9 January 2008 (EST)

For all damage effects, it would be 10 damage each second for 10 seconds, resulting in 100 points of damage. The damage will remain in effect even after the 10 seconds are over. Drain effects, however, work quite differently (i.e., Drain Health instead of Damage Health). The comparable drain effect would cause 10 points of damage maximum, and the damage would only last for 10 seconds; after 10 seconds, the effect and all related damage vanish. That's why drain effects are far cheaper. --Nephele^Talk 00:47, 9 January 2008 (EST)

Greater/Lesser Powers

Should they have a section like the Spells do?

I think so because the often have effects unavailable or unachievable through other methods. Also they don't behave like spells since they are unaffected by skill levels, spell efficiency, and they don't cost magicka. Red Scourge 02:54, 9 August 2008 (EDT)

In fact they do, but there was no link. Now added. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 03:11, 9 August 2008 (EDT)

Graph Terminology

(moved from Image talk:SkillVsManaEfficiency.jpg)

Here in Cyrodiil, we don't use mana. We use Magicka..! — Unsigned comment by 62.107.127.253 (talk)

Good point. I'm not sure it's worth redoing just for that though. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 03:31, 1 March 2008 (EST)

Graph Clarity

(moved from Image talk:SkillVsManaEfficiency.jpg)

This graph is very unclear. What does 'effect' refer to in effect/mana? Furthermore, why does there appear to be a logarithmic relationship between these variables when the skill mana cost equation is clearly linear?

I assume "effect" means "points of damage / healing / etc done". I've not looked into it enough to check the relationship. If somebody else wants to do so, that would be great. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 03:31, 1 March 2008 (EST)

It's actually a reciprocal graph, not logarithmic. The equation is probably something like Efficiency = Base Cost / Skill-adjusted cost. As the cost gets closer to zero, the Efficiency begins to increase dramatically faster. - Anonymous

Effect of Armor

"The armor penalty affects only the magnitude of spells and is rounded down"

My observations suggest that where there is a magnitude to the spell, the magnitude is reduced, but the duration is not. However, when there is no magnitude, only a duration, the duration is reduced. Example: my current character has 80% spell effectiveness. If I cast Bound Bow (duration 15 seconds), the timer starts at 12 seconds (15 x 0.8 = 12). --Gaebrial 09:31, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

Consider this confirmed... I've screwed around with summoning full sets of bound armor and then casting other spells, and "duration only" spells all had their duration reduced. The instant I saw that text in the article I nearly snorted food out of my nose. 76.104.192.194 21:31, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

Differences from Morrowind

One of the biggest differences for magic from Morrowind is that you don't have to drop/remove your weapon to cast. Which isn't mentioned here. 65.41.115.64 15:56, 22 May 2008 (EDT) Jarrod

Just started an article, Morrowind:Morrowind for Oblivion Players. Please assist in making this a great hub of information for those wanting to explore Vvardenfell. I believe a community effort can make this a top-notch guide. --Benould^•T•C 17:23, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

Imperial or Mages Guild?

Im very new, like, yesterday and just made an edit to the paragraph relating to Spell Effectiveness. It seemed to me that Imperial Battlemages wear armor, or is what they wear not considered armour, just decorative clothing, or are they not considered spellcasters in this context?(Geneticist 02:10, 23 May 2008 (EDT))

Imperial Battlemages do in fact wear armor, but also the hood so it's easier to identify them by. They are similar to regular Legion soldiers, but they cast Destruction and Restoration spells. Figgy 02:14, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

There was nothing incorrect about your edit. If you look at the edit summary, you will see that Timenn commented "Good point, but it applies to a few more NPCs. Tweaking note to cover NPCs that wear both armor and robes as well." Basically, you were correct, but the Imperial Battlemages aren't the only spellcasters to wear armor. --Gaebrial 03:09, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

Indeed. I meant that it was correct to point out that some NPC spellcasters do wear armor, but it reminded me that the Imperial Battlemage isn't the only one. The Bandit Hedgewizards and the Marauder Battlemages also wear armor, for example. --Timenn < talk > 05:27, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

Effectiveness Verification

I've removed the VN on the damage caused with <100 effectiveness because it proved to be accurate. I've tested this as follows:

Using the sdt 9 console command you can see that, with 95% effectiveness, an NPC only gets a -95% Resist Fire bonus.

With that weakness in place, casting a 10 point fire damage spell causes their health to drop by 17.

With the same weakness, casting a 25 point fire damage spell causes their health to drop by 44, which matches the same "always round down" chaining method.

I've tried the same tests with other levels of magic effectiveness and the same results are achieved. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 15:56, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

Casting Uses Fatigue

I noticed that when catsing spells, I used one fatigue per cast. I looked but I couldn't find this documented anywhere. So far, I've only noticed this one character, but I usually don't pay much attention to my fatigue bar anyways. Is this on a different part of the site, or did I find something new? Also, I play as an Altmer, custom class, Apprentice, if that makes any difference at all, though I don't see why it should. Darkle 20:14, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

From what I've seen casting has no effect on fatigue. Red Scourge 01:30, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

Casting definitely costs one fatigue, but it's obviously pretty tricky to spot given that fatigue constantly regenerates. The way I verified it (PC) was to press the cast button and then repeatedly jump into my journal as quickly as I could at different stages of the cast anination. The point at which the fatigue hits is just at the point of spell release for targeted spells, and at the moment when the fingers of the casting hand extend with touch and self spells. I've added a brief note to the article now. Very well spotted, Darkle! –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 06:35, 9 August 2008 (EDT)

Thanks Rpeh! And that's the same test I used to make sure the movement on my fatigue bar wasn't just my imagination. Darkle 20:52, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

Highest non modding magicka

I have been trying to maximize the amount magicka I can get without modding (I have Oblivion for 360) and I was wondering if anyone has higher magicka than 300 without the Atranoch birth sign. And if so how? I have a high-elf, apprentice birth sign, with 150 Intelligence, so 300 magicka. This is with equipment and after constant bonuses are added in. I have yet to use Oghma Infinium and don't want this character to be a vampire. — Unsigned comment by Red Scourge (talk • contribs) on 9 August 2008

See Oblivion:Magicka#Maximizing Magicka. --Nephele^Talk 10:47, 9 August 2008 (EDT)

Rather than giving you a link to follow, M'aiq will give you his personal advice! M'aiq too is an Altmer, under the sign of the Apprentice. Using the best quality of special rocks used to anchor Gates to Oblivion bearing a magical enchantment to boost magicka, He charges his robes and jewelery with them. Then, collecting 100 rings and 100 more stones (using M'aiq's wonderful method) he enchants all 100 rings, naming them all differently using numbers 1 to 100. Then he uses a second method and with this procedure, M'aiq has magicka over 3000! It is one of M'aiq's greatest feats yet. He has placed this here only so you do not get lost among the page Nephele suggested.

--M'aiq wishes you well 21:20, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

Points?

I think it would be informative if someone could explain the concept of "points", and how these "points" translate into practical terms for the different spell effects. "Frost damage 25 points" might be obvious, but what does "Turn undead 30 points", "Open lock 40 points", "Dispel 45 points", etc., mean in practice? — Unsigned comment by 78.108.51.14 (talk) on 7 November 2008

Like this? –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 13:01, 7 November 2008 (EST)

undetected magic

i have been hunting all over the site trying to find any tips on using magic for stealth kills. i am aware that for assassinations physical weapons are better, but i'm obsessed with using nothing but magic. often when i try to kill someone with magic, even if it's all done in one second they live long enough to detect me, do we know any way other than 100% cameo (i'm not wholly against doing that but it makes some quests act odly) to stealth kill with magic? mostly this is for the dark brotherhood, but i would still like to kill bandit A with magic, without bandit B finding me. if this is discussed somewhere else please tell me. thanks in advance.Akbaroth 06:57, 5 January 2009 (EST)

One tip I can think of is to use Conjuration to summon a creature. Enemies may detect the creature, and attack it, but they will not spot you if you remain hidden. --Timenn < talk > 10:06, 5 January 2009 (EST)

TOCRight Issues

In looking at the recent changes to move the graph out of the way of the equations, I noticed that the TOCRight is also overlapping the first equation at wide screen widths—albeit the blank part at the end. Certainly it doesn't affect anything at the moment...it just looks ugly. I'll be the first to admit bias in that I absolutely despise TOCRight...to the point that I felt the need to make a box on my user page indicating just that! So what do others think here? --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 18:45, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

What is your resolution? The TOCRight does not overlap with a resolution of 1280 x 800. --Mr. Oblivion^(T-C) 18:54, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

1680 x 1050 (widescreen). --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 20:22, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

I think that is why. It brings everything up a little, so the two conflict with each other. I wouldn't be opposed to moving it somewhere else. --Mr. Oblivion^(T-C) 20:35, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

Yeah, there's little doubt that that's why. Moving into a sizable window, the problem goes away as soon as I narrow it down a bit. I'm just not sure if we should revert to a standard TOC or what. Given my prejudices, I thought I'd solicit opinions before making any changes. :) --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 21:38, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

I went ahead and moved it. --Mr. Oblivion^(T-C) 21:54, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

So I see. Looks good. Thanks for the second opinion! --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 21:58, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

Using Armor

I changed the wording in the first paragragh to make it more clear that the armor penalty is reduced as the armor skill grows. I also added a sentence that the spell effectiveness can be seen on the Magic Menu.--Jxavier 19:07, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Good change - it sounds much better now. —Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 21:39, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Pros and Cons of Magic

Moved section from article. The primary benefit of magic is versitility. There is very little that cannot be done by magical means. Destruction and Restoration magic can be useful in combat, Alteration and Illusion can be useful for sneaking around, and Conjuration, Mysticism, and Alchemy can amplify the effectiveness of almost anything you do.

However, the biggest disadvantage of magic is how quickly your magicka runs out. Without any fortifications in magicka, even one with 100 Intelligence will only have 200 points of magicka at their disposal, which sounds like a lot at the beginning, but as you learn new and bigger spells, you will see that such large quanities become obsolete almost as fast as the computer you're playing the game on. As such, if you plan on using a mgically-inclined character, you should probably use either the Breton or High Elf, who each come with extra magicka, since it is in such precious supply.

I'm sorry, but at the present state I find this section to be filled with too much what seems like personal opinion. If we would remove that, I think little enough remains to not warrant it an own section. --Timenn-<talk> 11:37, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

A high alchemy skill to keep up a healthy stock of magicka regeneration potions quickly negates that issue. When it comes down to it, the effectiveness of magic is only really limited by your ingenuity. Being a magically inclined race helps, but it's far from necessary. -Anonymous

Should schools go more in depth?

I was surprised to see that the schools of magic weren't gone into more depth, as opposed to just being mentioned at the top of the page. I think we should include a little more info on the schools. I know that each school has its own page, but i still think that a short description of each should be included in the overview. Feedback, please! :) Jplatinum16 22:31, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

What would it add to the article that wouldn't create redundancy with the school articles themselves? --Timenn-<talk> 13:14, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Addition to the 'Comparison to Morrowind' section

I added a bullet point stating that the player does not need to unequip their weapon to cast a spell (unlike in Morrowind).--Checky Girl 19:02, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, we usually don't add comparison notes for normal articles. Instead there is this article for such things. --Timenn-<talk> 23:43, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Silencing greater power

Insert non-formatted text hereit is stated in the page that greater power can not be silenced, but i find that greater powers bestowed by magical stones can be silenced while by races and birthsign can not, so it should be " greater powers may not be silenced ", right? — Unsigned comment by 117.4.244.192 (talk)

This is true, I have tested and powers from stones can be silenced. Also all the powers from Shivering Isles can be silenced, except: Summon Haskil, Manipulate Weather and the Gatekeeper Gift. --Wizy (Talk/Contribs) 04:56, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

I have gathered and summarized all the powers that are or are not affected by Silence: here --Wizy (Talk/Contribs) 11:04, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

displayed value for spell effectiveness rounded up?

I was creating a spell to buff my armorer skill to 100 and with a lv 49 base I needed to raise it by 51 points to not break my repair hammers. With lv 30 in light armor I get a displayed value of 93% spell effectiveness so my math says that a spell that increases armorer by 55 would end up giving me the 51 points in armorer I needed (55*.93=51.15, rounded down = 51) however when I cast the spell I only got 50 points to my armorer from it so I'm wondering if maybe the displayed value of spell effectiveness is rounded up but the value used for spells is a rounded down version? EDIT another oddity is that if I'm only wearing fur boots I get a 94% spell effeciency displayed value (I got 93% while only wearing fur cuirass) so I get my 51 points to armorer by using a different piece of gear to train with.--Ewolfg1 (talk) 22:49, 4 November 2012 (GMT)

Absorb Health Question - If anyone's out there

Is there some reason why absorb health spells are not transferring the designated amount of health to my pc? Both in-game and custom absorb health spells are only restoring ~40% of what they ought to. The damage effect seems fine. Spell efficacy @ 100% with Restoration @ 50. I cannot find any info on why this is occurring. Any feedback would be much appreciated - assuming anyone still still plays oblivion.--67.252.139.35 14:17, 6 November 2013 (GMT)

Casting and blocking at the same time

The article says that you can cast and block at the same time: "casting while blocking [...] is invaluable for repetitive casting of ranged spells [...] Pressing the block and cast button/key at the same time is sufficient to chain-cast"

However, I can't manage to do that. I have assigned the mouse left button to Cast and the right button to Block. Both work well on their own. But if I press both at the same time I just cast, I don't block. Am I missing something here? Alonshow (talk) 02:07, 4 October 2014 (GMT)

You don't do both casting and blocking the way you are thinking. What they mean is that by holding down the block button while casting you can actually chain cast spells a little faster because the cooldown time between spells is slightly shorter due to you not having to wait for your arm to go fully down before it can cast another spell. If just casting without block then it takes just over 1 sec between spells, if casting with block it can be right on or just under 1 sec between spells. You can easily create a bound armor/weapon spell that's 1 sec long and it fail (due to the fact you can't cast a bound equipment spell if that slot is already a bound item) if casting while blocking because of the shorter cooldown, thou I have seen it also work without failing I've yet to figure out the exact circumstances needed to make it not fail.--Ewolfg1 (talk) 10:20, 9 December 2014 (GMT)

Spell Casting Time

I've seen very little sure info on this, but some mods descriptions seem to claim there is a casting time difference between self, touch, and target spells. If this is the case, it'd be valuable information to include in the article, both for combat strategy and for skill increases. Considering the block/casting technique gets considerable attention on this and other magic pages, and the attack speed for martial weapons is explained on other pages (types of weapons, weapon weight, etc), it definitely seems appropriate to include if there's an official answer. 47.34.70.231 01:08, 17 July 2022 (UTC)