Oblivion talk:Gromm

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Gromm's hostility[edit]

If you miss that 20 seconds like me (didn't know about this), he'll occasionally be hostile even when you have 100% chameleon. You can use the console to change this disposition towards you (which is -100) to stop him from being hostile again.

Rampage[edit]

One time, when I was in Olav's, Gromm attacked for no reason one of the other NPCs. I can't recall who. He wasn't hostile to me at all, though. — Unsigned comment by 91.107.103.53 (talk)

I messed up by letting Gromm see me, I just ran away untill I was far enough. When I needed to be in Olav's at another time, he attacked me. Olav and a town gaurd killed him though. — Unsigned comment by Korunox (talkcontribs)
He never so me, so I don't think that's it. And like I said, he wasn't hostile to me, just...I think it was Alga, looking at the list of regulars. — Unsigned comment by 91.107.103.53 (talk)
Are you sure it wasn't one of the Mythic Dawn agents that he attacked? --Gaebrial 06:06, 29 February 2008 (EST)
He's well-known for doing this. There's a common glitch where he can and will kill people in Olav's. The one he most commonly kills is Alval, which saves you some trouble during the Dark Brotherhood quest where you have to kill Alval. MAKE SURE to keep him alive and don't let him see you during his quest to have the hilarious benefits.

(moved from the article)

If Gromm does not die, he tends to get into fights with other NPCs for no appearant reason. The Fighters Guild member Bumph gra-Gash seems to be particularly hostile torwards him.

This is another version of the same story. I've moved it here because it needs investigating. Under what circumstances does he go wild? Who does he attack? Is it actually YOU he's attacking and the other characters come to your aid? It all needs a lot more work. –RpehTCE 11:02, 16 May 2008 (EDT)

    • In my case, it can't be the player that he's attacking, because he is always non-hostile before and after he sees these characters. Nifhelton 16:54, 7 June 2008 (EDT)
    • In mine, when i entered the tavern he stood up and bellowed "You don't belong here" to the other NPC's before attacking them, although he did not attack me. Maybe its something to do with him believing them to be trespassing, getting the ownership of the tavern confused. When he goes there does he become a 'permenant resident' or 'owner' of the place? Im not really sure how it works on that level.

Disappearing Corpse[edit]

Let's review the evidence:

  • First, editors reported that Gromm was disappearing when he died.
  • Second, his script (GrommScript) has a check that says if GetStage Dark03Accidents >= 100 and if GetDead == 1 then he is disabled. In other words, he disappears as soon as both of those conditions are met, no matter what the order.
  • Third, I just tested in game. His body disappeared the instant he died, as he was in the middle of flying across the room. No, it didn't disappear the moment it hit the ground -- because it didn't even touch the ground first.

Hopefully, all of that is enough information to satisfy everyone and make it possible to remove this contentious verification needed tag? If not, could I suggest that it be discussed here on the talk page instead of provoking unnecessary and insulting reverts? --NepheleTalk 17:47, 18 May 2008 (EDT)

Question[edit]

If Gromm gets killed BEFORE I start the related quest, does the game still consider it as me having killed him for the quest's purposes even if I didn't touch him? GenocideHeart 12:35, 3 March 2009 (EST)

See the notes on the quest page. –RpehTCE 12:43, 3 March 2009 (EST)
Thanks. This place is so large that sometimes details like those escape my notice. GenocideHeart 12:58, 3 March 2009 (EST)

His hostility[edit]

I do think his page needs a mention of his hostility. He never detected me and I left the house in 20 seconds, so he should not recognize me. He is not hostile to me as I can talk with him (well, talk!) in Olav's. However, when Bumph gra-Grash entered, and they spotted each other, they engaged in combat immediately. Strangely enough, when I reloaded, the same thing did not happen and they just peacefully drank wine (or whatever). I don't know if Gromm attacked Bumph or the other way around, but he is certainly hostile. The guards struck down Bumph first, which might indicate she's the aggressor. Wolok gro-Barok 05:38, 15 June 2009 (EDT)

I have tried several times, and never seen him attack anybody at Olav's. In the case of all of you having seen him hostile, I figured, as the place is jam-packed with sneaky types, somebody probably tried to pickpocket him, making him turn hostile. In any event, it could use a bit more checking, both in-game and in the CS:
  • How come he is hostile at Olav's, if he never detected you in Baenlin's house? What is the determing factor?
  • Is that (old) note even true - will he be more hostile towards you, if he spotted you at the house?
Hope someone will spend some time researching those two questions and add the necessary info to his page. Krusty 05:51, 15 June 2009 (EDT)
I'm 100 per cent sure it isn't me he's attacking. What I do find strange is that when I try to approach him, he say: "You do NOT belong in here.", which is weird because we're in a public inn. Also, the last three times I followed Bumph into Olav's no blood was shed, which shows it does not happen everytime.
Hmm, sounds to me like we have a Bumph gra-Gash-page coming up? ;) Anyway, instead of us hanging around Olav's for days and nights, it should be looked up in the CS, as it sounds very random to me - and if his aggression is variable due to different factors, it should be clearly visible there. Krusty 06:14, 15 June 2009 (EDT)
As I stated in this here "thread", it would be really helpful if somebody could take a look in the CS and verify that "bug". It's a fact, that he disappears right away if you kill him at Olav's. But I don't know about the other stuff. I'm not even sure what it means. - Krusty 23:10, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
My bad for not looking at the thread first. I'll have a look at the CS and in-game if I can tonight or tomorrow. --Robin Hood (TalkE-mailContribs) 23:40, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
No problem. Let me know, if you need anything double-checked in-game. Krusty 00:18, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
Looking at it quickly, I think if you've previously talked with Gromm while not on the quest, it might still continue to count out the 20 seconds that he warns you to have left by, so this could be causing the 20-second issue. I don't see any reason for the 20-second issue to trigger if you've never spoken with Gromm before, though, so I'd want independent confirmation of that. The UOP doesn't change that script at all, so if there is a bug, it's one that they didn't catch (or at least didn't choose to fix). If you don't have a suitable saved game, Krusty, then I'll "rig one up" tomorrow. --Robin Hood (TalkE-mailContribs) 04:48, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
Hi! Strangely enough, this never happened to me before until now, but he does go berserk at Olav's, and I don't think it matters if he saw me or not, because he attacked Ongar, not me (sorry, I had full chameleon, he does attack me as soon as he sees me). He also attacks me if I try to interact with him. just out of curiosity I raised his disposition towards me, and after that he didn't attack me. I'm waiting if he attacks Ongar again. Villy 00:47, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
This is what happens when I don't keep a personal "to do" list somewhere. I'll post a sticky on my monitor, and hopefully this time I really will have a better look at it tomorrow. Thanks for the feedback, Villy - sounds like there's definitley something not-quite-right there. --Robin Hood (TalkE-mailContribs) 01:31, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

- On not one but two characters, I've had Gromm start a fight with a random patron of Olav's Tap and Sack. He just pulls out his warhammer and starts wailing on someone. The person then flees and he follows, only to be killed by the guards for assault

Better late than never[edit]

Okay, I'm starting to take a look at this, and I can confirm that there's a lot of unusual activity going on in Olav's. My method in setting up this quest was fairly simplistic, so it could have triggered an unusual situation or two which wouldn't actually happen in-game, but I don't think that's the case with anything here. I started with a character as yet uninvolved with the Dark Brotherhood, then ran the following commands from the console:

startquest Dark03Accidents
setquest Dark03Accidents 10
setquest Dark03Accidents 100
  • The first thing I noticed is that when Gromm came out of Baenlin's house, he did indeed tell me that I did not belong there (in the streets of Bruma).
  • Next, after entering Olav's at almost exactly 9 pm and waiting an hour (i.e. fast-waiting, not just standing there), several patrons started raising a theft alarm and Brotch Calus was killed by a Bruma Guard. This is odd, since Brotch has a responsibility of 50, which should preclude theft.
  • After waiting another hour, Gromm got into a fight with Karinnarre and Suurootan.
    • On re-loading and waiting for that same hour, Gromm again got into a fight, only with a Bruma Guard this time. Everybody else just stood around until such time as Gromm killed the guard, then most of them became hostile towards Gromm.
  • On leaving and re-entering, the Bruma Guards were now attacking Suurootan.

After some playing, here's what I've found so far:

  • Gromm's incorrect line about not belonging here was easily fixed by adding a GetInCell condition to the line, but did not in any way solve the remainder of the unusual behaviour.
  • After disabling Ongar, the stealing issue appears to have been resolved, so I'm guessing it was him that causing the stealing and others in the vicinity were simply siding for or against him as dictated by their various factions and so forth.
  • Removing ownership of Olav's Tap & Tackle and making it entirely unowned appears to have stopped all fights with Gromm or anybody else. This to me says it's something to do with people picking up or using items when the game believes they shouldn't be. On the surface, I see no difference between this inn and any other, but it probably bears further investigation.

--Robin Hood (TalkE-mailContribs) 23:23, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Problem solved! (at least, I hope so)
It seems that Olav's is owned by OlavsTapFaction instead of Olav himself. It has previously been found by several people that faction ownership does not behave properly in shops and the like, so everybody who tries to eat there seems to everybody else to be stealing food, and they all get upset about it. By changing the ownership of Olav's to Olav himself, instead of the faction, everybody's behaviour reverts to normal, no fights break out, and food regularly disappears from the tables.
If anybody wants it, I've now incorporated this into Rob's Fixes. --Robin Hood (TalkE-mailContribs) 02:09, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Wow. Interesting find. So who owns the food if the ownership of the cell is changed? If the food is owned, why would people mind it being stolen from a faction but not a person? –rpehTCE 07:24, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Before the database crash, I had a really nice section here detailing everything I'd tried and so forth. Since that's all gone now, suffice it to say that I've fixed the problems. Gromm telling the player that he doesn't belong here was just a matter of adding a condition to his dialogue and was unrelated to the problems in Olav's Tap and Tack. The problem in Olav's would actually happen with anybody, not just Gromm, and had to do with the fact that a Faction (consisting only of Olav) owned Olav's and most things in it, instead of Olav himself owning it. This has been shown to not work properly by others, so I simply changed it to Olav owning it and there were no further fights between anyone whatsoever. The fix is available as part of Rob's Fixes to anybody who wants it. --Robin Hood (TalkE-mailContribs) 01:47, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
I've restored the original section, so all the gory details are back! --NepheleTalk 06:06, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, Nephele.
To answer rpeh's question, I'm a little confused as to how this works, myself. My guess is that the food, which is unowned and therefore defaults to whomever owns the cell, is seen as fair game to be taken by NPCs...maybe only when it's in a "Public" area? With Faction-based ownership, though, whatever allowances were supposed to be made haven't been. I'd have to experiment more to figure out for sure what the ownership rules are, exactly. --Robin Hood (TalkE-mailContribs) 21:56, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Odd Dialogue[edit]

I was stalking Alval Uvani at Olav's and overheard Olav asking Gromm "What he things Gromm will do now that Baenlin is dead, and Gromm responded like any other NPC. --SneakyPenguin77 (also my Gamertag) 00:06, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

It is pretty common that even quest-involved NPCs talks about their own "merits" during conversation with other NPCs. --Krusty 12:22, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
This happened to me too, olav said " Old Baenlin is dead," Gromm said, "What?!" — Unsigned comment by 71.2.72.232 (talk)

Removed edit[edit]

moved from the page

  • Gromm's love of taking care of the old, rich man Baenlin may be an intended parallel to Smithers, a character from The Simpsons who enjoys taking care of thw aging Mr. Burns.

I removed this because I suspect is some kind of nonsense. If it is not, please put it back but explain why. --MC S'drassa T2M 23:25, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

You did the right thing. That parallel is guesswork and there's not much Smithers to be found in Gromm. I wouldn't call it nonsense, though. --Krusty 23:45, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
To be honest (dunno if it's the right thing) I claimed it as "nonsense" because Smithers is actually homosexual. Sorry if I misunderstood :/ --MC S'drassa T2M 23:47, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

No yield, no calm, no soul trap[edit]

I should have checked here first, but then I might not have tested at all. On 360.

The game created an autosave inside the door to Olav's. Gromm went berserk right away, seemingly targeting me, and only Olav stepped in to fight. Twice we killed him, and he vanished. The third time, I started trying different things: no matter what, Gromm would not accept my yield. My calm spell should have worked, but he never let up.

On the fourth load, I instantly went into sneak mode. Gromm was seated on the far end of the bar. At least for a few minutes, nobody stole anything and no fights broke out. Eventually, I snuck around to get closer, but he spotted me, uttered something like, "look who we have here," and then started smashing everyone with that hammer. Again, no yield, no response to calm, and he disappeared in the midst of his collapsing animation. Even his death groan was cut short and silenced.

The last time, I tried sneaking again, casting calm before he spotted me, to no avail. This time, I stepped back to see if he was really after me or Olav. He came for me until Olav started on him, so I tried calm a few more times, then for giggles hit him with soul trap (one empty black gem in my inventory). Olav turned tail and Gromm chased him out into the street. I followed them both and got to see him try to take on a trio of guards while Olav beat feet for the north end of town. The guards were definitely only interested in Gromm, not me nor Olav. Before they finished him, I hit him with soul trap again. He started to fall, disappeared, and...nothing. No message, nothing in the gem, no animation. Nothing.

IIRC, I took my sweet time sneaking out of the house after the assassination, but I wasn't seen.

Upon exiting the bar in pursuit of the action, a new autosave was created, so that ended my testing. It was all weird enough to come check to see if it was a known bug. Looks like I just get to add my own anecdote and maybe expand the detail a bit. If it helps, cool. — Unsigned comment by 71.61.174.190 (talk) at 03:31 on 27 November 2013‎

It looks like Gromm's hostility has been discussed thoroughly in the past. Some of the above entries on this talk page detail why he may be aggressive even if he never saw you during the quest. As for why the soul trap spell did not work, it may have something to do with the bug that I think you mentioned and is also mentioned on the article in the bugs section. If I'm reading right, you said his body disappeared after he died, which is certainly not typical behavior. My guess would be that this weird death sequence probably caused his soul to not be absorbed, since he didn't die normally, though that's honestly just a guess. Otherwise, the spell could have not hit him or its duration ran out, but judging from your story, that doesn't seem all too likely. Forfeit (talk) 05:48, 27 November 2013 (GMT)