Oblivion talk:Dion

Dion

Well, I have followed him for two in-game days, and he's another problem child - and I'm afraid there's need for a rewrite of the original schedule.

Dions Schedule:

6am: Gets out of bed (I found him on the upper floor in the Gurad house, sleeping in the same room as the other guards) and starts his rounds. Or "round" would be more appropriate, because he have only one, as far as I can tell. He's walking back and forth between the front of the chapel and the eastern bridge. Back and forth and back and forth. 12pm: Something strange happen at this point, because he suddenly seem to walk back to the Guard House (I actually had him enter it one time), but then decides to go back on duty. Back and forth between Chapel and Guard House. 4pm: Enters Guardhouse and gets stuck on the stairs by the dinner room. If he manages to get free (or if you push him) he will go out into the food supply room and simply just stand there. 6pm: Back on duty, and back and forth between the chapel and bridge. 7pm: Back in the guardhouse, eating. 9pm: Back on duty, and back in the same routine as earlier. 12am: Goes back to the guardhouse and goes to bed - not in the bed from earlier, but in the locked room next to the dinner room.

Pretty weird. I just couldnt get him to go anywhere, but the chapel and the eastern bridge - and as you might have guessed, I know Skingrad pretty much by now, and I have seen him countless times on different days by the chapel. I suggest you pop in the game, and see for yourself - and to double-check.

And I changed the bit about the sleeping clothing - if he wears his full armour while sleeping with the other soldiers, I dont know - but when he's alone in his room, he sleeps in the other clothes.

Ok, so I decided to give this guy yet another check, and the above is still pretty correct. A few minor exceptions, though: The 12pm cue isn't really nessecary, as he will approach the guardhouse before that time as well. He do have a cue at 12pm, but he doesn't change his ways. And it seems that, the first time you arrive, he will sleep in the same room as the guards, but if you "follow" him to bed, he will sleep in the locked room downstairs. In addition the the mentioned schedule, he does some kindda weird move when he's right in front of the chapel - almost like he is picking up food or something. Does the CS say anything about that? Krusty 07:31, 25 February 2009 (EST)

I've looked into it, and most of your and Rpeh's observations are correct due to a multitude of AI Package errors. First off, the percentages are incorrect, so Dion will indeed spend most of his time outside the temple. Next, at 4pm, instead of exploring Skingrad like he's supposed to, he explores the Guard House due to a Location not being specified. His armour is also an issue, though there were some amusing observations here...I never ever saw him sleep in his armour, even with the Armor Unequipped flag cleared. However, when I created a mod and set the flag, he happily took off his armour just outside his room, then as he was about to lie down again, he would invariably put his gauntlets back on if you were in the room with him...though amusingly, if you were elsewhere when the package occurred, he ususally slept with his hands bare in my testing. I have no idea what's up with that.

I wasn't able to specifically duplicate your problems with him sleeping in a different bed. He's marked to only sleep in the one in the locked room, but the AI's pretty good about letting people sleep in other beds if theirs is occupied or otherwise inaccessible for some reason. It could be that some random glitch caused him to be unable to reach his own bed, so he picked another one that particular night. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 01:13, 4 March 2009 (EST)

I'm sorry, but I really can't see why the schedule had to be changed back "due to the CS" when it, as in this case, is bug-filled and useless in-game. In fact, reading the new schedule, I dont even have a clue where he is - and I have followed him aroiund for 6 in-game days. Stating in the schedule that he have a general "patrol around town from 4pm to 6pm) is not true at all, and it doesnt help to put a correction in the bugs section. The percentages thing is another point - why write it that way? Its confusing, and fact of the matter is, he patrols ONE route, and one route only. Gamers who will like to find him should just go from the chapel, over the eastern bridge and to the Guard house, and theyre bound to find him. I wrote the "old" schedule to make it easy for gamers to find him - which must be our first goal, instead of keeping things "true" to the CS. So; Can we please change this schedule back? Krusty 04:22, 4 March 2009 (EST)

Okay, before we get into an edit war let me just say something. My original schedule came straight from the CS and I did minimal testing to make sure it was at least roughly accurate. When Krusty posted his revisions I was surprised and did some more checks. I couldn't recreate his findings exactly, but had to agree that it wasn't quite as simple as the CS describes. The UOP bugfix list describes some problems, but not all.

I've been avoiding saying anything about this because I wanted to get into the frame of mind where I could spend a couple of hours with the game and the CS investigating not just what happens, but why. For instance, why does he sleep with his gauntlets on but not the rest of his armor? He has a very similar AI package to Viranus Donton who does wear armor in bed and had to be patched by the UOP. Why am I getting different results to Krusty?

As for what goes on the page, it needs to be what happens in-game, with bugs noted elsewhere - see the Ambroise Canne page for an example. At the moment, though, there's no agreement about what does happen, so can we stop editing and re-editing the page until we can work this out? –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 05:12, 4 March 2009 (EST)

Of course! Sorry, if I sounded a bit harsh in my earlier reply - it wasn't meant that way at all. I knew Dion was problematic, and that's why I put a lot of effort into checking him on several days and posting my experiences here. In the end, I decided to just rewrite the schedule to get it out of my head (and off the schedules unchecked page), and that might have been a mistake - but I only did it because I wasn't sure, whether you had noticed this talkpage or not. I expect you to have the final say-so on everything written and I wouldnt have it any other way, but I have a suggestion: Would it be possible to make a talk-page for those of us working on the project? A kind of "ONPCRP-in-the-making" sort of thing? I'm aware about the discussion page already there, but its filled with discussions on how to design the new NPC pages, and I figure that it would be useful to have a room solely connected to the work done on various NPCs here and now. Otherwise, we will fill up all the NPCs discussion pages as we go along. Krusty 05:59, 4 March 2009 (EST)

I wasn't having a go - I just wanted to forestall a potential edit war. I don't have the final say either - that's what consensus is about.

The NPC talk pages are probably the best place to talk about the NPC's schedule. First, 90% of NPCs won't have these kind of problems. Well... 80% anyway. Second, once we've arrived at a schedule that everybody can agree on, it'll be good to be able to refer any future editors to a discussion on the article's talk page without having to dig it out from a probably-archived project page. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 06:30, 4 March 2009 (EST)

Fine with me. In the future, though, I will add a small paragraph called (in-game) to my tag - just to avoid confusion, especially when I'm writing schedules on the more anonymous NPCs. Krusty 06:47, 4 March 2009 (EST)

(←) I can't help with the schedule, but I think I can help with this: "For instance, why does he sleep with his gauntlets on but not the rest of his armor? He has a very similar AI package to Viranus Donton who does wear armor in bed and had to be patched by the UOP." I believe this is because his cuirass is light armor, and he is Guard with skill only in Heavy Armor. There appears to be a bug in the 'Unequip Armor' processing of an AI schedule - I have created brand new NPCs for a mod, and given them a schedule that should make them take off their armor when they go to sleep, and they've taken off their armor when the schedule kicks in, then put it back on again when they actually get into bed. This appears to be down to their armor skill - I don't know the actual skill level breakpoint, but if they are proficient in the relevant armor skill, they put their armor back on during the 'climbing into bed' animation. As Dion is not proficient in Light Armor, he doesn't put his cuirass back on. --Gaebrial 07:03, 4 March 2009 (EST)

Sorry, the 4pm thing was my fault...I thought I had changed that, but apparently I missed it. As for his normal patrol route, I did verify in-game (with the UOP disabled, just to be sure) that he will stop at all three scheduled locations, at least from time to time. It tends to look more like two locations because the bridge is on the way to the chapel anyway. But if you look at the CS to see where he's supposed to stop (middle of the bridge, in front of the chapel, and mistakenly in the guard house), he really does stop at all three, so that much is correct. For the percentages, I was following what I saw in the CS precisely. For an editorial like this, it's probably not necessary to be that precise, but I wanted it to be clear that the original 1/3 was incorrect due to the less-than/greater-than sign error...it's closer to 2/3 of the time that he'll stand in front of the temple, then roughly even chances for the other two locations. I'll have another look at the page and see if it needs any further touching up...haven't looked at any changes you guys might've made in the mean time. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 18:27, 4 March 2009 (EST)

Gaebrial: It's a nice theory, but I tried giving him Glass Gauntlets instead of Steel, and he still put them back on when he went to bed. I also tried changing the sleep schedule to be more like Viranus', complete with a Reference instead of an Editor Location, and still no luck. I'll try loading the UOP and see what changes they've made there and if it helps any with the gloves issue. I'll report back if I find anything useful. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 19:04, 4 March 2009 (EST)

Okay, I give up. Switching to following Viranus instead, to see if his behaviour was the same, if I was in his cell or if I saved the game just before 2am and re-loaded (even not in his cell), he slept in full armour no matter what I did...leaving the cell before 2, leaving the entire house before 2, whatever. If I loaded a saved game from a couple of hours prior and waited outside his cell until he went to sleep, he always slept in his undies. Is that screwy or what? I'm guessing it's a problem in the *.kf file, but I have no idea what's in those, how to edit them (if there is anything publicly available to edit them), etc. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 19:37, 4 March 2009 (EST)

It IS problematic - but when it comes down to it, the way Dion behaves in-game (warts and all) should take first priority. Your new schedule is absolutely correct as far as I'm concerned - yet, it's still kindda confusing to me. IMO, there's no need to list it as perfect as you do, with odds and percentages and links to the bug sector - it can be done pretty simple; At the times he's not in the Guard House, he can be found between the eastern bridge and the chapel. All the rest should be placed in the bug sector. Still, it's kindda fascinating, that a schedule in-game can be so much different in the CS. And that's what we are here for - and that's why it's fun! Keep up the good work! Krusty 21:02, 4 March 2009 (EST)

Poisoned Apple

(moved from the article)

• I am not sure how it happens, but if a poisoned apple is used in the skingrad guard house, for some reason guards there will keep dying long after the apple has killed the target. Dion could potentially fall victim to this.

Moved for 1st person usage, speculation and questionable veracity. –rpeh •T•C•E• 21:53, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

The poisoned apple problem is that when the script effect is applied to a respawning NPC it is not removed upon death, so three days later a new guard will spawn in place of the one who ate the apple only to die from the poison. Since Dion does not respawn he would not be affected unless he was the one to actually eat the apple.--Rhomphaia^T•C 22:28, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Godly

I noticed that Dion is a part of the name Dionysus, the Greek God of wine. Since he lives in Skingrad, the wine producing town, I don't think it is a coincidence. Especially since he is a high power in the Wine Town. Unless anyone objects, I want to add this to the page.--Arch-Mage Matt^Talk 19:17, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

I actually did a report on him recently and I can't believe I didn't notice it. He is the Greek god of wine, ecstasy and parties. (sounds like a fun guy) and his roman name is Bacchus (witch makes me think I've heard it in Oblivion somewhere else too)--^Corevette₇₈₉ 19:21, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Added. Isn't it fun to unravel Bethesda's little secrets? :)--Arch-Mage Matt^Talk 19:27, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, but no. That is a real stretch. I don't see Dion followed by a crowd of satyrs, nor does his AI contain packages for religious rites and mass orgies. To be a proper link it needs more than just the first four characters of two names to match! rpeh •T•C•E• 05:00, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

But... are you really sure that is just a coincidence? I would agree with you if he guarded Choral, but... Skingrad, the wine producing town... and he is a power figure, i.e. the Leader of the Wine Producing Town, connects with the god of wine. Dion is half of Dionysus, not just four letters.--Arch-Mage Matt^Talk 21:49, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I'm sure. It's a meaningless coincidence. If he was one of the wine producers, then it might be intended. rpeh •T•C•E• 12:57, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

(←) I am from Greece, I know the Greek Mythology better that any of you. I agree with Matt, I believe we should add it in the article. --Rigas Papadopoulos 14:00, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

No. As rpeh has pointed out, you're just stretching it. The fact that you might know more about greek mythology doesn't change anything, it's just a coincidence and nothing more. --S'drassa ^•T2M 14:11, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Fine. But I still agree with Matt. --Rigas Papadopoulos 15:30, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Dion trapped

I was doing the Paranoia quest and Sleeping in Summitmist manor, I use it as a house, when Dion entered and talked to me. But now he can't get out for some reason and he is stuck there presumably forever. Should this be added to either article, because it may interfere with the Paranoia quest. RIM 16:59, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

If you look at the quest page for the Dark Brotherhood, Whodunit, specially the Notes: "The door to the manor is scripted to keep all of the quest-related NPCs from leaving, but as a result, no other NPCs can leave. The only way to get followers out of the manor is to use fast travel." and "It is inadvisable to sleep in Summitmist manor after completing the quest, as messengers such as those related to the Thieves Guild, and Hermaeus Mora's quest will be trapped in the house for ever, as they will be unable to open the front door. Dion can also be trapped in the house, if Paranoia has been started." So it is well documented. I suppose it could be mentioned on here or at Paranoia, but it seems like such a small chance of happening. You would have to be at a specific stage of Paranoia while staying in the house... I'll let that be up to someone else. --DKong27 ^{Tk Ctr Em} 05:20, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Nah you're probably right, It was just very bad timing. Not really that much chance of happening.RIM 13:02, 18 September 2011 (UTC)