Morrowind talk:The Citadels of the Sixth House

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Merge[edit]

The Keening Artifact Quest, Sunder Artifact Quest and Assault Dagoth Ur quests are all not officially quests in the game, but are rather all part of this quest. Site policy has generally been to keep quests named as they are in the game, and these three violate that policy. Having them as separate articles like they are now also leads to false implications that they are separate quests which must be done in order, when in fact they are not. Sunder can easily be acquired before Keening, and most of the "Assault on Dagoth Ur" can be done without acquiring either artifact. (Only the final confrontation with the Heart of Lorkhan requires them.) The part about killing the seven Ash Vampires is not necessary at all, though it makes the last battle easier. This is really one quest - one long complex quest, but still just one quest. If Ahnassi, a Special Friend can be listed as one page, then surely this should be as well. (Ahnassi's "quests" are at least linear, and must be done in the listed order, while in this quest, that is not the case.) --TheRealLurlock Talk 01:14, 27 August 2007 (EDT)

I agree that these quests should be merged; in fact I thought about doing it myself some time ago, but didn't have the courage. Anyway, as this is a complex quest with many optional steps, care should be taken on the layout to avoid confussion. Another thought, we could make these quests subpages of Morrowind:The Citadels of the Sixth House, and remove the quest header and footer to make it clear these are not quests of their own. --DrPhoton 08:18, 27 August 2007 (EDT)
I'm with DrPhoton on this one. Just make 'em subpages ofthis article. Darth Cronus 11:49, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
Just out of curiousity, how would subpages benefit the page? Wouldn't it be better to arrange each page and transclude it to the "The Citadels of the Sixth House"? --Brandol 04:50, 30 December 2007 (EST)
I've already merged the four pages, but I still need suggestions to make it look more streamline. Take a look and tell me what you think. Assault on Dagoth --Brandol 21:09, 31 December 2007 (EST)

Formatting this page[edit]

Actually, I did preview it in IExplore-7 after changing, and it looked good. Right now, with my change removed, I see a big blank section at the top with only the images at the right. What does it look like for you Rpeh? --Brf 07:59, 28 June 2008 (EDT)

Hmm. The original looked fine in Firefox and your version had the huge gap, but both versions break Opera. I've rejigged the page and it now works in both. I assume IE will like it too. –RpehTCE 08:31, 28 June 2008 (EDT)
I'm not sure about the images we're using - those dinky little maps from the old site aren't really all that useful, and we've been phasing them out in most other places, especially since installing the MW Google Map. So I think they should be replaced here as well. I was thinking the Keening and Sunder artifact images would be nice for Odrosal and Vemynal, except that they're both vertically formatted and really mess up the page. (I tried a preview.) They should probably be replaced by horizontally formatted images anyhow - I may do that myself, as I made the originals. The Dagoth Ur map could be replaced by the post-MQ image of Dagoth Ur, since we're using the pre-MQ version on the top of the page. (And those two file names are easily confused...) --TheRealLurlock Talk 09:10, 28 June 2008 (EDT)
Okay, so I went ahead and did it. (I kept the old Keening and Sunder pics around because they look better on Short Blades and Blunt Weapons.) If people want maps, they can go to the location pages. Or the interactive map. That's what they're there for. --TheRealLurlock Talk 09:23, 28 June 2008 (EDT)
OK. I dont see any more gaps. It looks like someone shortened the table-of-contents. That nasty thing kept overlapping one way or another in my jiggling. Shortening it probably helped. I kind of liked it better the way it was before with Odrosal and Kogoruhn pictures up with the Dagoth Ur one, but as long as everything fits, it looks fine. --Brf 14:33, 28 June 2008 (EDT)

Notes[edit]

"Each Ash Vampire killed causes Dagoth Ur to lose 5 points of Speed, Strength and Willpower, 50 points of Health and Fatigue and 250 points of Magicka."

(German) Dies funktioniert nicht wie vorgesehen. Es gibt zwei Versionen von Dagoth Ur, die erste in der Inneren Höhle (1), die zweite in der Kammer (2). Beide Versionen sind je eine eigene Kreatur. Damit das Script, das die Werte ändert und auf den Aschevampiren liegt, funktionieren kann, müssen die Kreaturen vorher einmal in ihren Zellen geladen worden sein. Auf regulärem Weg trifft man die 2. Kreatur jedoch nicht, bevor man die 1. Kreatur getötet hat. Deshalb funktioniert das Script so niemals auf den Dagoth Ur in der Kammer (2) und nur auf den Dagoth Ur in der Inneren Höhle (1), nachdem er in seiner Zelle geladen wurde. Alle Aschevampire, die man vorher getötet hat, haben auf diesen Dagoth Ur (1) keine Auswirkungen. (Translation in English is difficult for me; Jurdace)

(English, Try) This does not work as intended. There are two versions of Dagoth Ur, the first in the interior cave (1), the second in the chamber (2). Both versions are different creatures. In order for the script (the one that changes the values and is used by the Ash Vampires) can work, the creatures must be loaded in their cells once previously. (i.e. The player must have gone to Dagoth Ur, and loaded the cells in game). Under usual circumstances you will not meet the 2nd Creature until after killing the 1st Creature. Therefore the script never works on the Dagoth Ur in the chamber (2) and only on the Dagoth Ur in the interior cave (1), after he has been loaded in his cell at one point previously. Any Ash Vampires which you have killed beforehand have no effect on this Dagoth Ur (1).

I have edited the note to reflect this. In case anyone doubts this - Dagoth Ur's first form has only 300 health. If the script worked properly, killing all 7 ash vampires would leave the first form dead. This was how I found that the script can't effect him if he hasn't been visited.(How did you find the script problem, Jurdace?) Narfblat 05:14, 8 January 2009 (EST)
Thanks for adding it here too - I hadn't spotted that this article mentioned it. We'd already fixed this on the creature page; I wonder if there are any other mentions? –RpehTCE 05:46, 8 January 2009 (EST)
Even with the ash vampires that are summoned to the chamber, the reductions from this script still will not be particularly useful, as his magicka and health effectively can't be reduced until the heart is destroyed. JabberwockySR 03:40, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Undo Five Edits - reasons[edit]

The reason for undoing these edits is that the information added was either wrong or irrelevant:

  • The first is unnecessary; why would this happen?
  • The second duplicates an existing link
  • The third is untrue - they never respawn, and the fourth was an edit to this one
  • The fifth is untrue - Levitation is a way over the Ghostfence, Mamaea doesn't circumvent the fence in the same way Kogoruhn does.

RpehTCE 00:23, 4 May 2009 (EDT)

Mod suggestion to fix the "Killing the Ash Vampires does not weaken Dagoth Ur" bug[edit]

I just created a mod for the German Goty edition of Morrowind, which fixes this bug among many others. I'll release it on Elder Scrolls Nexus in a week or so when I'm done fixing bugs. The exact description of how to do this can be found on the official Bethesda forums, as long as it's there, see my post there:

http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1037539

Should the link become inaccessible at some time in the future, here's the general idea for any potential modders who'd like to fix this bug for the English version of Morrowind (or whatever version you are using):

Create a new global var and increment it every time one of the 7 ash vampires dies. Then mod Dagoth Ur's stats directly AFTER you encounter him, based on the number of ash vampire lords killed. Following scripts have to be changed:

Ashvampire -> increment global var here

DagothUrCreature1 and DagothUrCreature2 ->these are the scripts for the first and second Dagoth apparitions. The scripts should look like this (very short version to give you the general idea):

short UrStr

short UrWillp

short UrSpeed

short UrHealth

short UrFatigue

short UrFatigue2

short UrMagicka

short UrMagickaFix

set UrStr to -5*AshWeakenUr

set UrWillp to -5*AshWeakenUr

set UrSpeed to -5*AshWeakenUr

set UrHealth to -10*AshWeakenUr

set UrFatigue to -10*AshWeakenUr

set UrFatigue2 to 500-(10*AshWeakenUr)

set UrMagicka to -10*AshWeakenUr

set UrMagickaFix to 300-(10*AshWeakenUr)


if ( state == 0 ) ...

modStrength UrStr

modWillpower UrWillp

modSpeed UrSpeed


etc. etc. Hope you get the idea. There are some complications that require additional scripting, esp. in the DagothUrCreature2 script, but I don't feel like going into detail here. Read my post at the Bethesda forums, if it's still there. Otherwise check out my mod on Nexus as soon as I upload it WRFan 04:02, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Journal entries not appearing[edit]

As the article mentioned, some journal entries might not appear depending on in which order you choose to finish the semi-quests. I started off by killing Dagoth Tureynul today, which is the first time I have ever gone inside the Ghostfence. I think I've killed Dagoth Uthol in Kogoruhn during the other quest situated there, which may have been something like one or two in-game months ago. However, my problem is that the journal entry suggesting I've killed Dagoth Tureynul didn't appear. As far as I can remember, I didn't get an entry for Uthol either. So will this affect my progress or can I just ignore this and continue? And why did it happen? Thanks in advance! SwedishBerzerker at youtube.com 19:39, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

That is easily answered: the developers forgot to update the journal when the bad guys die. All Ashvampires use the same script and there is no journal entry set. You didn't do anything wrong, it's just one of the quadrillion bugs in the game. :-D Karl1965 22:50, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
I should add, that this bug is without consequence. This special journal index is not used anywhere else, so it does not hinder the game progress. Karl1965 00:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Note or Bug?[edit]

Shouldn't some of the notes rather be in the bug section?

  • "Killing the Ash Vampires does not weaken Dagoth Ur like it is supposed to..."
  • "If you use Divine or Almsivi Intervention after defeating Dagoth Ur..." (This one is taken care of in the UMP by moving the command 'EnableTeleport' from the script 'endgame' to 'azuraend'.) Correction: UMP moves the command, but there is still an invisible "teleport_enabler", so it is not fixed... Karl1965 19:32, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
  • "When Dagoth Ur dies, if you quickly access his corpse and dispose of it..." (Applies to the first Dagoth Ur, I presume? The doors are moved from his script and if the body is removed, the script stops. That's a bug in my book.)
  • "...you may accidentally 'kill' the Heart of Lorkhan by striking..." (definitely a bug. It is the duty of every programmer to anticipate the most stupid thing the most stupid user could do...) Karl1965 22:13, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Some journal entries (C0_Act_C) are never displayed, because the scripts simply don't do it. Order of accomplishment does not matter. That belongs into the bug section, too. Karl1965 19:32, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
If there are changes you want to make, go ahead and make them. You don't need our permission. rpeh •TCE 19:38, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Done. But I removed the part about Lorkhans Heart. The script sets the heart's health to 5000 points in every frame and I like to see someone causing that much damage in one blow... (maybe with a newly created weapon? is there an upper limit for weapon damage?) Karl1965 17:16, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
I can't answer for the technical details, but the Bloodmoon:Ebony Arrow of Slaying is capable of dealing 5000 damage, so there you have at least one possibility. Talk Wolok gro-Barok Contributions 18:05, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

() I just found out the limit for physical damage of a weapon is 255. How does that bow do it? Big magical effect? Game code changed? Karl1965 18:15, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

It's not the bow, it's the arrow itself. Basically it's a Damage Health effect, thus it's not physical damage. Talk Wolok gro-Barok Contributions 18:25, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
"You can use the lever on the pipe and the AI that moves Dagoth backwards if you get too close to trap him in the doorway. He will not teleport behind you when he is trapped, making the encounter a lot easier." Can anyone confirm that? I fail to see why a PositionCell command would be stopped by a door. Karl1965 19:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Citadels of the sixth house before the rest of the game.[edit]

It should be noted that this quest can be completed at ANY TIME IN THE GAME.It finishes properly, and seems that it may have even been intentional. It is very dificult without wraithguard, however.--Playerjjjj 17:58, 11 July 2012 (UTC)Playerjjjj

Sunder without Wraithgard?[edit]

Under what circumstances does:

"In Citadel Vemynal I discovered an enchanted hammer called Sunder. It appears to be one of the enchanted tools created by the Dwemer Craftlord Kagrenac. But I can handle it without injury when I don't have Wraithguard equipped, and that seems very wrong."

happen? — Unsigned comment by Gglazer (talkcontribs) at 04:58 on 27 July 2013 (UTC)

presumably for the false version of Sunder that exists in the Construction Set, but was never implemented in-game. I believe you were originally going to be optionally able to accidentally recover the false Sunder. DOn't quote me, but I think Dagoth Ur has dialogue related to it as well somewhere, I seem to recall reading about somehwere. ES(talkemail) 05:34, 27 July 2013 (GMT)

Killing Dagoth Ur without killing all the Ash Vampires[edit]

I have made corrections to the following notes which were added to the article recently:

*It is, in fact, possible to face Dagoth Ur without killing all the Ash Vampires. In particular, no quest (except this one) sends you to Endusal: Uthol is avoidable by every quest that sends you to Kogoruhn, Tureynul is avoidable during the Temple quest that sends you to Tureynulal, and Araynys is avoidable during the only quest that sends you to Mamaea.
*However, you will have to kill Odros (for the key to Keening's chamber - the lock is pickable but the chamber cannot be reached without passing Odros), Vemyn (who actually carries Sunder and cannot be pickpocketed for it) and Gilvoth (who guards the last door to Dagoth Ur's chamber and attacks on sight). Thus it's impossible to legally reach Dagoth Ur with all seven Ash Vampires still alive.

The first note is accurate as it stands, however the second note contains a couple of errors.

First, there is no need to pass Dagoth Odros to get Keening. As can be seen on the map of Odrosal, Dagoth Odros is nowhere near the access to The Tower where Keening is found. As long as you have a way to get past the locked doors leading to The Tower's entrance (i.e. lockpicking or an Open spell) there is no need to go anywhere near Dagoth Odros.

Second, although Dagoth Gilvoth guards the door to the Facility Cavern where Dagoth Ur is found, you don't necessarily need to kill him: you can use a high-level sneak/chameleon/invisibility to slip past him undetected, or ignore his attacks and run to the door--once through, he cannot follow you since it is a load door.

The only Ash Vampire you do need to kill is Dagoth Vemyn, as there is no other way to obtain Sunder. I've gone ahead and edited the note to reflect this. — Wolfborn(Howl) 04:22, 7 April 2022 (UTC)