Morrowind talk:Ordinator

NPC Classes

Shall we make similar pages for all NPC classes? We can move the info from Morrowind:NPC Classes to these pages, very much like the Spell Effect pages. Any thoughts? --DrPhoton 04:11, 16 February 2008 (EST)

Reputation vs Desposition

I have one game saved where I was walking around Vivec with hardly any Reputation at all, but high Disposition due to a high Personality. The Ordinators are very helpful and call me "Citizen". --Brf 14:09, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

Well... I thought it would be easier to say Disposition... since Reputation and Personality are what build up Disposition, and that is what the Ordinators (and everyone else) are reacting to. --Brf 14:26, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

That doesn't take the fact of Rank in the Temple in account...

While you were typing:

You're right, Personality plays a role as well, I amended the main text. Their disposition toward a player is a sum of those three factors, hence the initial undo. BTW, have you been attacked by Ordinators after being named Nerevar, but before having had the talk with Vivec? I am trying to resolve the VN in the text, problem is, my characters are all high in Personality and have rank in the temple when they reach that state of the Main Quest... Cheers, --Benould^•T•C 14:30, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

That has never happened to me, and I have played through the main quest countless times in countless different situations. It may simply be because the user who posted that comment had previously killed an Ordinator, worn their garb, or had an exceptionally low personality and/or disposition with them. --HMSVictory^Talk 14:38, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

Yeah. Disposition includes Faction rank too... So Disposition is the easiest and most correct word there... And to answer your question, the game dialog implies that the player has to avoid the Ordinators after being named Hortator of all three houses, when you are revealed as a "spy". At that point, in my most recent game, I was out in the wilderness being named Nerevarine, so I never ran into any Ordinators. When I went to talk to the Archcanon, I shoved right past several Ordinators and they pretty much ignored me.--Brf 14:40, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

Thanks for your additional experience, the game dialog you mentioned is why this is mentioned in the text at all. As to just saying Disposition, it is certainly more elegant, except I have no verification at this point that generic Ordinator guards are members of the Temple faction, perhaps a look into the CS could clear that up. The Guards page was just created today ;) --Benould^•T•C 14:53, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

Ah. So we are thinking that Temple-rank affects their disposition even though we have no proof that Ordinators are members of the Temple. Yeah. Maybe someone should check their disposition script. --Brf 14:59, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

Small Question

Do ordinators respawn as well as guards?— Unsigned comment by 83.55.246.99 (talk) at 19:09 on 31 October 2011

Yes, all generic ordinators respawn. The Ordinator Guard does not, as well as the two ordinators found during the Morrowind:Saprius Entius (quest). Wolok gro-Barok 19:17, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Wolok :) 83.55.246.99 19:30, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Reviving this: Do they respawn after a set amount of time? Whether they do or not, "They respawn." at the top of the page NEEDS to be fixed by myself or somebody else.--WoahBro (talk) 20:49, 24 April 2013 (GMT)

Yes Done. I modified it into a full sentence. Also, they respawn the same way everything else respawns, which I believe is when the cell loads the next time. Jeancey (talk) 20:53, 24 April 2013 (GMT)

two questions

Hello everyone. I'd like to ask a few things.

First, where does the information about four ordinator's orders come from? It's very interesting, but I can't remember seeing anything like that in-game.

Second, is there any canonical (or semi-canonical) information about their helmets? Many people seem to think those masks are modelled after Nerevar (thus many fan-arts picturing Nerevar with a mohawk). But I also recall reading somewhere that masks actually resemble St. Felms, because he founded the Ordinator's Order (did he really?..) I haven't been able to find any confirmation to either version so far, would greatly appreciate if someone could explain this to me.109.205.248.173 10:29, 20 April 2013 (GMT)

Mehra Milo, when asked about Ordinators:

"The Ordinators are the holy guards and soldiers of the Temple. The four orders of Ordinators answer to the Alma Rula in Almalexia. Grandmaster Berel Sala is the chief Ordinator on Vvardenfell. The Order of the Watch provides guards for temples and shrines. The Order of War fights the enemies of the Temple; most War Ordinators are stationed near Red Mountain. The Order of Doctrine and Ordination are militant scholars. The Order of the Inquisition identifies and suppresses heresy among priests and laymen."

I can't answer your second question; I can find no canon information about St. Felms (only two lines about his domain) and none on helmets. Vely^►t►e 15:39, 20 April 2013 (GMT)

Oh, I see. It's been awhile since I last played through the Main Quest, and I've forgotten about this dialogue. Thanks for answering. 109.205.248.173 04:17, 21 April 2013 (GMT)

Oops, I mistook St. Felms for St. Olms apparently, silly me. Still no information on helmets though. 109.205.248.173 03:54, 22 April 2013 (GMT)

There does seem to be a strong resemblance between the mask on an Ordinator helmet and Vivec's face. LordXenophon (talk) 06:35, 22 April 2013 (GMT)

I have acсidentally stumbled upon the confirmation. Yes, according to Kirkbride, helms are indeed modelled after Nerevar. 109.205.248.173 15:33, 25 April 2013 (GMT)

Ebony Mace

Is it worth emphasizing that Ordinators are better armed and armored than common house and legion guards? They may be the same statistically, but Indoril armor is a lot sturdier than bonemold or Imperial, and an ebony mace packs way more of a wallop than the steel and silver weapons of other guards. Generally, only higher-leveled characters should be trifling with guards of any region anyway, but I think the Ordinators in particular should not be underestimated.

On the other hand, only a Telvanni guard will summone a bone walker in your face. LordXenophon (talk) 07:06, 5 May 2013 (GMT)

Ordinators Hate List

Unfortunately, the page neglects a significant problem. Once on the hate list for wearing their armor you remain on it even if you take off the armor and dispose of it. Dying and going back to a previous save doesn't work unless the save is prior to donning the armor. So if you went invisible or used intervention to escape with it and paid any bounty you are still on the hate list even much later in the game. Using calm spells and bribing them up to 100 doesn't stop them. Killing one just angers them all more and they respawn. This seems almost a bug. If you are on a PC you may try the following console commands:

"ordinator stationary"->SetFight 30

"ordinator wander"->SetFight 30

"ordinator wander_hp"->SetFight 30

"ordinator_high fane"->SetFight 30

"ordinator_wander_hvault"->SetFight 30

"ordinator_wander_tvault"->SetFight 30

"ordinator_mh_stationary"->SetFight 30

"ordinator_mh_TBasement"->SetFight 30

"ordinator_MH_Sadri"->SetFight 30

"ordinator_mh_TH_UNI"->SetFight 30

"ordinator_mournhold"->SetFight 30

The last five of these are for Mournhold if you have installed it. However, there is no guarantee for the above commands. I used them but there was still an ordinator in Vivec who pursued me. Kalevala (talk) 04:16, 22 March 2014 (GMT)

What's a bug about it, exactly? It seems rather straight-forward to me and isn't a bug at all. You've violated the Ordinators' beliefs by wearing their sacred armour, and you're going to pay for it either then or in the future. I think we should close this discussion off, as this post is more of a forum-like help posting for what's really a non-issue. -damon  ^{talk ♥ contribs} 04:29, 22 March 2014 (GMT)

This information would probably be useful to somebody, but it belongs with the other console tips or on the cheats list, not on the page about Ordinators. LordXenophon (talk) 01:07, 23 March 2014 (GMT)

It is listed on the armor page. I suppose it might make sense to mention it here as well, but it's not a bug as far as I know - that's intended behavior. I'll admit I was a little shocked by it the first time it happened to me - I found a set of armor on a dead Ordinator outside Kogoruhn and had no idea why they were mad at me. I could see others having this problem as well. But the cheat codes definitely don't belong here, that should go on a console tips page of some sort. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 01:47, 23 March 2014 (GMT)

In that case, it belongs on the bug page, in the section on things that look like bugs but aren't really, after the explanation of the overflow loot bag.LordXenophon (talk) 06:03, 25 March 2014 (GMT)

I went back and played this again and found out that the SetFight is a trigger point value for the battle. Once a battle is triggered, setting the trigger to a lower value does nothing. I set them all to 10 instead of 30 well before any battle began and specifically used: "ordinator wander00000001"->SetFight 10 This resulted in no hostile Ordinators at all. This still leaves the game console player with no warning and no solution except to start over. While perhaps not a "bug" since it is intentional coding within a script, it is to my mind a design fault. I have played a lot of D&D and D&D style rpg computer games going back to the late 70's for pencil, paper and dice. If some behavior is so completely different for a class in some significant way there is usually some in-game warning to the player in the form of a book of lore, another player's prophecy, etc. This "hate list" (not an in-game term) appears to have no in-game documentation until after you get on it and then the only thing said by the Ordinator is that the player is "unrighteous" without any explanation as to why. There is no in-game blather about "sacred beliefs." Yet the player's reputation stat suffers no ding and there is no means to make amends as you can when you have broken a faction's rule. Doff the armor, drop the armor, return the armor, yield, cast calm and bribe to 100 disposition, pay the fine, etc. nothing works; the Ordinators continue their relentless pursuit. It is this last point, that the player's error is uncorrectable, that clinches the design fault (or the failure to finish the scripts to allow for some correction method.) Kalevala (talk) 01:34, 1 April 2014 (GMT)

As to where the codes belong, if memory serves me, most page bug lists that have work-arounds do offer the code for the PC player. Perhaps this is no longer the "best practice" or my memory is fading? In any case the code listing here is probably sufficient. I looked on the Armor Page mentioned above and the codes were not there. Kalevala (talk) 01:34, 1 April 2014 (GMT)

That's not technically accurate. When you investigate the murders in Vivec, and you return to the quest-giver for a reward, he warns you that the ordinators won't take too kindly to you wearing the armour around them, if that's chosen as the reward you wanted. While they don't mention 'perpetually attack on sight', they do point out that it's a definite no-no. -damon  ^{talk ♥ contribs} 05:42, 1 April 2014 (GMT)

Morrowind is an open RPG. It is not an FPS where the character is a marble rolling down a chute. There are eleven quest lines to be done in any order: Main, Thieves, Fighters, Mages, Morag Tong, three Houses, Tribunal Temple, Legion, and Imperial Cult. There are about eight locations for Indoril Helmets: Dren Plantation (Dren's Villa), Ghost Gate Tower of Dawn, two in the Vivec Ministry of Truth (Hall of Processing), Velas Ancestoral Tomb, Vivec Justice Offices, Vivec Ordinator Barracks, and the Vivec Redoran Scout and Drill Master quarters. In addition there is Indoril armor on the dead Ordinator outside Kogoruhn. So how does one find out about the probelm in-game? That knowledge comes from completing a specific miscellaneous quest which is one out of more than 60 such quests having nothing to do with any quest line. One's character needs to pick the right miscellaneous quest before picking up and donning the armor. That is the notice which does not include the unpleasant news that the character will be relentlessly pursued and most surely does not explain that there is no way in-game to redeem the error (unless on a PC.) I do not believe Bethesda is infallible and so I see it as a design flaw of sufficient import to bear mentioning again on this page about Ordinators, the offended ones who will be killing the character. That is the argument as succinct and clear as I am capable of making it. However, absent any consensus here, I agree that the page will remain as is. Kalevala (talk) 22:54, 1 April 2014 (GMT)

But, what's the point of this discussion, other than pointing out that it's a design flaw? It says, and it's said ever since I took into account this discussion as I did the rewrite, that they will always attack on sight (see Morrowind:Ordinator#Behavior). Or, are you asking that we point out that it's a design flaw, in which case I disagree. What's a "design flaw" is subjective and speculative, which means it has no encyclopaedic value towards the article. I, for one, don't see it as a design flaw, and I believe that it's a valid, justified feature that the attacks happen indefinitely. Ordinators are fanatically loyal, after all. Honestly, this discussion, in my opinion, can't advance forward any more while remaining encyclopaedic and not speculative in nature. -damon  ^{talk ♥ contribs} 23:23, 1 April 2014 (GMT)

We are agreed on the page's current text. I find the re-write about this irrevocable choice well done. If I have upset you, my apologies. Kalevala (talk) 00:23, 2 April 2014 (GMT)