Morrowind talk:Level

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I was very surprised that this page didn't exist. I really hope I didn't just overlook an existing page and do all that work for nothing. Anyway, as you can see, there are a few bits here and there that I couldn't really state unequivocally off the top of my head. Anyone who can confirm the truth on these matters, please feel free to remove those ugly "verification needed" templates:

• The ranges of skill increases for each attribute multiplier. I assumed they were the same as for Oblivion, but I haven't tested.
• What actually happens when you take twenty major/minor increases in one level? I believe you gain two levels in one sleep, and that the second level has no multipliers, but again I haven't tested.
• When you choose to increase Endurance, is the increase of Health based on the Endurance value before the level or after it? Is the 10% rounded down, or rounded "naturally"?

Of course, I look forward to any other improvements as well. I'm going to want to touch up some other basic pages, like Classes, Attributes, and Skills, to work in links to this page, but I'll hold off for a moment just in case anyone thinks this page needs a different name. --TheNicestGuy 00:47, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Yeah, so I ran the article by my girlfriend, who's played Morrowind years longer than I have, and I guess I was pretty wrong about some of the basics. Now it should really describe how leveling works, but I'd still love to get some amens, since it would take me forever to empirically confirm the entire model. (Unless anyone knows how to use the console to get instant skill increases that will actually affect level progress and attribute multipliers? Didn't seem to work that way when I tried it...) Also, all three questions above still need answering. --TheNicestGuy 20:51, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Wouldn't you know it? I did some testing; my girlfriend was wrong, and I was pretty close to right originally. (No gloating allowed, though. She's also been playing with knives years longer than I have.) I merged the previous two revisions so the article now reflects mostly things I've actually verified through play. Including the behavior when you sleep if your progress-to-next-level is 20/10 or higher. (Only one level is taken at a time, but if you immediately sleep again, your second level is completely without multipliers.)

For the record, I finally figured out how to use the console to seriously speed up the testing of leveling behavior. Although I still don't know if or how the console can hand out arbitrary skill increases and have them count toward a level, obviously the console can easily hand out as much gold as you like. Then just find some good trainers and go to school. You still have to abide by their maximums, and the restriction on training higher than your governing attribute, but it can be a huge time-saver nonetheless. I need time-savers when I spend so much time talking to myself... --TheNicestGuy 09:49, 3 January 2008 (EST)

I can answer or clarify a number of the points, based on my experience.

• The multipliers are: 1-4 = x2, 5-7 = x3, 8-9 = x4, 10+ = x5.

• You don't have to rest in a bed. You just have to rest as opposed to wait.

• Although miscellaneous skill increases don't contribute to your level-up progression, they do:
  • Contribute to the attribute multipliers.
  • Give you the 'rest and meditate' message, if you are already ready to level up.

• If you increase your Endurance when you level up, your health goes up by 10% of the new Endurance value.

• Percentage points of health are retained (but not displayed), so if your Health is 40, Endurance is 55, and you level up, you will gain 5.5 points of Health. Your Health will now be displayed as 46 (rounded up). If you then gain another level, your Health will increase by another 5.5, resulting in 51 Health.

--Gaebrial 04:13, 8 January 2008 (EST)

Thanks, Gaebrial! I love having less ugly superscript text on the page! Would you take a look at the latest revision and make sure I understood you correctly about rest vs. wait? I knew what I meant originally, but I expressed it misleadingly.

About that fractional health, that's immensely interesting. Does that mean that max health, current health, and damage dealt or taken are all floats behind the scenes? Or does this just apply to max health? --TheNicestGuy 11:17, 8 January 2008 (EST)

One slight clarification to that - you don't have to sleep in a bed unless you're in a town. Resting in the wilderness will let you go up a level but resting in a town will get you a message about it being illegal. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 11:21, 8 January 2008 (EST)

It applies to max and current health and magicka, and I would imagine it also applies to damage dealt/taken (as this is adjusted by Strength and Armor Rating), but I'm not absolutely certain. --Gaebrial 02:22, 9 January 2008 (EST)

Just wondering...

what will happen when your high level character has less then 3 attributes to spend points on? So your strength, speed, endurance, agility, personality and intelligence are all at 100, your willpower is at 96 and luck at 92. At the next level up you could still spend points on willpower and luck, but since the game wont let you close the window unless you spend all 3 points you could never close the window and therefor never rest again? 131.174.17.97 06:31, 28 January 2008 (EST)

I've never got to that situation, but I understand from others that if you only have two attributes you can increase, you are only given two 'points' to allocate. --Gaebrial 07:46, 28 January 2008 (EST)

I can confirm that for the patched PC version that if you only have two attributes that you can increase, then you'll only be given two 'points' to allocate. Similiarly if you only have one final attribute to increase, most likely 'luck', then you are only give one 'point' to allocate. I doubt I'll be able to max out my levels / luck so not concrete positive what happens when you have no attributes to increase, but I'd hazard the guess that you just see the level up window with no points to allocate but you can still click the OK button to continue. Happy leveling. Rob-nick 06:26, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Multipliers

Well, I thought I was fixing a confusing sentence, but my fix got moderated out.

The phrase was explaining that for efficient leveling, you should split your 10 skill increases between three different attributes, so you get the highest possible increase.

Therefore, you should split your 10 increases between three of the attributes, so each gets the highest possible multiplier.

The existing phrase for efficient levelling says to have three attributes with 10 points in "each" (a total of thirty points which is impossible, since you only have 10). It should say 10 points "between them", indicating that the 10 skills you increase should only be increasing no more than three different attributes (or two if you want to add to Luck) so the highest possible points can be awarded for each of those three attributes.

Addendum: The highest attribute increase (assuming 10 skill points were increased) is by adding eight skill points for one attribute and one skill point each for two more attributes. This allows you to add four points to one attribute, and two points each to the other two attributes, for a total attribute increase of eight points. Brf

I can see the confusion, but the segment in question was talking about maximizing multipliers. Yes, ten increases in your Major and Minor skills result in a level-up. However, you can gain additional attribute multipliers by utilizing Misc. skills, thus having ten increases in each attribute you want to level up. I changed the headline to be clearer now. Hope that helps, Benould^•T•C 15:24, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

Oh. Do you get attribute increases for Other Skills too? I was not aware of that. I was thinking only the Major and Minors counted. Brf

Only Majors and Minors count for actually leveling, but all skills count for attribute multipliers when you do level. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 17:30, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

I just tried this, and it does NOT work. I was at 20/10 for my leveling skills, so I ran to the Blunt Weapon trainer (which is a misc skill for me) and trained 10 levels. I was expected x5 for Strength and but had no multiplier there when I levelled. Then, I trained 20 more Blunt points and when I levelled, I had no multipliers at all. — Unsigned comment by 98.213.108.14 (talk)

Major/minor/misc. skill increases ALL count towards multipliers.

Skills governed by the same attribute "stack" for multiplier purposes. (eg. An increase of 2 in Acrobatics and 4 in Longblade will count as an increase of 6 in Strength)

You earn a level when you get a total of ten skill points in your "class skills". Every skill has an attribute associated with it, you can see them on the stat menu popups. Each class skill that you earn delivers a point for its attribute, and each misc skill delivers up to four points adds to it as well. These points translate into the score multipliers by the following table:

1-4 skill increases will give a multiplier of x2 for the governing attribute at the next level up.

5-7 = x3

8-9 = x4

10(or more) = x5

Example:

Say you want to level STR, and have a major skill in Long Blade and a minor in Armorer. You had 2 skill-ups in in each for a total of 4. That leaves 6 point to be gained in misc, let's say 5 in in Blunt and 2 in Axe. Blunt then caps at 4, 2 Axe added to the 4 from before. Presto, 10 points total in STR and a multi-plier of 5.

Skill increases, for multiplier purposes, reset to 0 on every "level up".

Bug, in some versions:

If the next multiplier would take you to 100, you can only reach 99. resetting the multipliers completely. Hope this helps, --Benould^•T•C 21:32, 17 April 2008 (EDT)--Edited, no cap on how much Misc Skills can add to multiplier. We debunked an old myth here ;)--Benould^•T•C 15:51, 15 July 2008 (EDT)

A couple of points of clarification... Firstly, as far as I am aware, the game stops tracking skill increases once you have got to 20/10. Therefore, any training you buy once you are at 20/10 is lost. Secondly, if you have an attribute that is close to 100, and you increase your skills sufficiently that the multiplier would push that attribute above 100, you will lose that multiplier. Example: if your strength is at 96, and you increase your skills sufficiently to get x5 to strength, you will not get a multiplier on strength at level up, as 96 + 5 = 101. --Gaebrial 03:46, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

That might explain the problem I had then. Since my Strength was already 96, I could not gain 5 points in it. Brf

An interesting one for this 95+ bug. I had a 95 Intellegence after leveling. I went and trained Enchant (a minor skill) 10-points and it did not let me add more than 1-point to Intellegence upon levelling again. On the other hand, I had 99 speed and it would let me add 2-points to that.--Brf 23:57, 15 July 2008 (EDT)

Nothing new in that, if you had gotten 8-9 increases in Enchant, you'd get a 4x multiplier. Likewise, going over from 99 has always been possible, the game just corrects itself when you exit the level-up screen. --Benould^•T•C 00:25, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

OK. So the bug exists when your current Attribute level is 95-98, and prevents you from reaching 100. Once you reach 99, whatever attribute increase multipler will show, even though you cannot use more than 1. --Brf 11:27, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

Misc skill caps

Why does this misinfomation saying Misc skills cap at 4-attribute points keep appearing? I, for instance with my GOTY PC version, have no Major/Minor skills with Agility attribute, but I can still add 5 agility points by adding 10 to a Misc skill. --Brf 08:22, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

I seem to recall that the way miscellaneous skills contributed to attribute increases at level up was changed with one of the official patches. In the patch notes for the original 1.1 patch, it says "Training skills will now add to level up bonus for misc skills", so maybe that's the reason for the confusion. --Gaebrial 02:16, 15 July 2008 (EDT)

I'm really not sure what that patch note is supposed to mean. On my Xbox 360 I'm running an unpatched version of Morrowind and I have definitely, on nearly every level up, been able to get +5 attribute bonuses from basically any combination of minor, major, and misc skills. For example, I have repeatedly bought training for 10 heavy armor skill increases (a misc skill for my character) and obtained a +5 endurance bonus, without any other endurance-related skill increases. I've done the same for other specializations and other attributes: blunt weapon, unarmored, hand-to-hand, and enchant. I've also received 10 restoration skill increases purely from casting spells, and I got a +5 willpower bonus. The only time my attribute bonuses have not matched my expected bonuses has been when my attributes reached 95, at which point the +5 bonus vanished; I took a +4 bonus the next level instead. Since I'm mildly obsessive about attribute bonuses, I've kept track of my skills at every level up. Therefore, my data for testing this are pretty comprehensive, and I can't see any combinations suggesting any type of cap on attribute bonuses from misc skills.

And from reading through the patch notes, I'm convinced I don't have the 1.1 patch. I definitely don't have the "additions" listed under "VERSION 1.1.0605" (no version number on my menu screen; no health bar for enemies; no difficulty slider -- and by comparison to my patched PC version, I know what these features should look like). Even without trying to verify the bugs, I've seen some of the other bugs that were fixed (I've gained money when buying an item; I've seen NPCs running when they should be wandering; etc.). So I think it's safe to assume that I don't have this supposed misc skill fix, either.

Any other theories on what that patch note could mean? --Nephele^Talk 13:36, 15 July 2008 (EDT)

From what I understand, or remember, in the original PC version (version 1.0 if you like), miscellaneous skills could only contribute a single attribute bonus point (so if you only increased miscellaneous skills against an attribute, you would only get +2 for that attribute at level up). Any combination of major/minor skills and misc skills would increase the bonus, but the misc skills would still only give you a single bonus point - for example, if you had 5 major/minor skill increases and 5 misc skill increases for an attribute, you would get an increase of +4 (1 standard point, 2 bonus points for major/minor skills, 1 bonus point for misc skills). This may have only applied to misc skills that were increased by training (as opposed to practicing), but I seem to recall that it applied to all misc skill increases - my memory on this may be faulty, though.

This is what I believe was changed in the 1.1 patch, although I don't know/can't remember the circumstances surrounding the change. It is possible that, as the X-Box version was released later than the PC version, BethSoft included certain aspects of the 1.1 patch, including the revised level up bonuses, in it.

--Gaebrial 02:34, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

It comes from a Gamefaqs Article by Xenious. This requirement, however suspect, is worth mentioning if only to debunk it- if we can. I took the info in his article on good faith, and others will have also. Mentioning within the Level article the suspect nature of this info will forestall others from inserting what they see to be an omission. At the moment we lack sufficient evidence to debunk it outright, and can only assert that it is suspect. Anarchangel 19:28, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

Moved the section concerning levelling down, and added a caveat to distinguish it. It was written by myself without knowledge or consideration of XBox and GotY versions, and had been edited by users of those versions with no knowledge or consideration of any other version than their own, seemingly without regard to whether it ended up making sense even for those versions they based their revisions on. I have amended my considerations, and trust they will do the same.

The amended section itself is on a short leash, as it has been some years since I obtained the information on skill caps, and I can no longer be certain whether it was empirical evidence from my own version, 1.0.0.417, or information from a website. I will put a citation tag on it, which I will replace with the version number if I find the cap ingame. If I do not find it ingame, I will look online for examples of the cap, and provide them as citations if I find them. If I find neither, I will delete it. Anarchangel 07:41, 16 July 2008 (EDT) Found the website with the Misc skill caps. Will add the reference, with more specific caveats.Anarchangel 19:28, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

I am using an unpatched version of Morrowind (PC), and the cap is absolutely there, exactly as the Xevious FAQ says. My first thought was also that the information here (and in other FAQs on gamefaqs) was in error, so a note mentioning that there is a version issue would be good. Now I am going to go and patch my copy. :) 205.147.11.242 19:13, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Raising skills that are already at 100.

Just a side note that there is no such thing as a "level block" like how you described it with the 97/100 restoration and security. You can use negative skill buff spells to temporarily drop it to a value below maximum, then go to a skill trainer and pay some gold to get a point contributed to your level, even though it doesn't raise the skill any higher.

I haven't tested whether it contributes to the multiplier, but I'm pretty certain it does.

Also, when you run out of attributes to raise, you simply get less stats to raise. If you want to max out all your stats, it is recommended to raise Luck at every level since there's no multiplier for that attribute.

That is not what the author of that note is saying... The 97/100 is not refering to a skill with a level of 97. It is refering to a skill at 97% of the way to the next skill point. The example is of a character that is already at 10/10 MM skills and ready to level up, but has not trained enough Misc skills to be ready to actually level up with maximum attribute point increase. If the MM skill in question is at 97% of the next skill raise, he wants to avoid using that skill to avoid getting to 11/10 and losing an attribute-raise-point to go toward the second level-up (after the 11/10 one).--Brf 09:34, 15 July 2008 (EDT)

do not know why he considers it to be so terrible to get to 11/10 when Misc skills can be used for attribute point-increases at any time regardless if you are at 11/10 or not. --Brf 09:40, 15 July 2008 (EDT)

You are right that my concern over the 11th M/M point is a little excessive for a main page. Looking back at it, I am not happy about leaving this the way it is, with the detailed example of what is a minor concern. On the other hand, it is a concern; whatever made one's points go to over 10/10 can happen again, compounding the problem, and necessitating playing catch-up.

Well, in this game I am playing, I was at 210ish/10. I only caught up once I maxed out all my stats. Throughout most of the game, I was at least 100/10. In Morrowind, it really does not matter as long as you keep track of your skill gain. Also, I just tested the Drain Skill to drop your skill and training it back up with a trainer. It does contribute to your level, but your skill raise disappears. Once the Drain effect wears off, you go back to 100. There was some note about raising skills past 100 and people consider it cheating, but it really isn't. With 10 M/M skills, that's already level 100, and that is WAY excess of what anyone actually needs... ZirePhoenix 02:50, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

Hints Page

I propose making a Gameplay Hints or Tips for Levelling or some such page with links from this page, for tips players would like to contribute, including (or perhaps not) the sort of micromanagement and all around tips that I had previously contributed to the Levelling section.Anarchangel 07:41, 16 July 2008 (EDT) There are a few other sections on this page that are contributing other than merely describing the game mechanics, and could fit the tone of a Hints page also; otherwise I wouldn't have put such informal advice here :o). For now, I will merely clarify the 97/100 thing that it is already causing confusion -might as well just lift Brf's phrasing verbatim Anarchangel 03:44, 16 July 2008 (EDT) Took out the passage altogether, pending approval of a Hints page. A Hints page, in addition to Efficient Levelling, and other such gameplay suggestions, could also have in it comments such as this, taken from this very Discussion "If you want to max out all your stats, it is recommended to raise Luck at every level since there's no multiplier for that attribute." It would bridge the gap to what players want to contribute but cannot, on this page: their own strategies. It would be informal, and leave this page free from informalities, allowing it to concentrate on game mechanics exclusively. Anarchangel 07:41, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

You mean like Morrowind:Hints? Try to fit it there, instead of yet another advice page ;) --Benould^•T•C 10:50, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

o\ My bad. Will do. Anarchangel 19:39, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

Read before Revert

I learned a valuable lesson from the process of editing this page: that the Xevious article on Gamefaqs was in error. The primary reason for my previous edit, highlighting the dispute about this fact, is that it is drawn to the attention of people who might have been similarly misled.

I want to make it perfectly clear that I do not support the version of this page as it now stands. I was in error to write the text that now stands; it describes what I now know to be an unnecessary and flawed procedure, and more importantly has been marred by having the relevant detail that would have marked it as such, removed. it is a hazard. For me to return the text to what I feel it should be, would inevitably be the first shot in an edit war, and that, I shall not do. Anarchangel 18:54, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

Skill loss effects on multiplier gain

When a skill is reduced by jail time etc., does it have any effect on the multiplier for that skill's attribute (eg does it reduce the skills gained with regard to multiplier)? When that skill level is regained does it have any effect (eg does it count normally as a skill gain or is it disregarded)? This should be noted on the page. — Unsigned comment by 216.82.142.13 (talk) on 19 May 2009

Of course you could always do some research yourself. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 09:44, 25 May 2009 (EDT)

Just checked for myself, and edited the main level page to reflect that.

Health increase

I just got Morrowind and my character has 75 Endurance. When I level up and choose the +5 Endurance will my health increase by 7.5 or 8.0 points?-Lord Sheogorath

As quoted from the first topic:

• If you increase your Endurance when you level up, your health goes up by 10% of the new Endurance value. --^MC• S'drassa ^•T2M 22:59, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks.-Lord Sheogorath

Kwama Foragers and Armor

(moved from the article)

A Kwama Forager is particularly good for this training as it will not damage armor.

Timenn already removed this once but it's just been reinstated. There is no difference between the melee attacks of a kwama forager and the melee attacks of any other creature so there is no reason why they wouldn't damage armor. The only possible answer is that they only do 1-3 points of damage, but then a rat only does 1-2 points of damage so unless they don't damage armor either, that can't be the reason.

In any case, this shouldn't go on the article until it has been properly verified and more extensively tested. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 09:18, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Well there's nothing different about them on the CS. They have no spells, although they do have 15 spell points for some reason, and magic skill of 90. All their attacks do 1-3 damage. The kwama foragers from Tribunal are only slighter stronger in health and fatigue, but no different in any other way. I can't see where this claim comes from. -Itachi 10:30, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

It is strange that you say that they do not have spells, because I distinctly remember them 'casting' a Paralyze effect. If this is in lieu of and counting as a physical attack, then it may well be that that attack does no damage and therefore is causing the confusion. Anarchangel 18:45, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Despite being the person to make this claim, I can't really shed light on why they don't damage armour. Kwama Forager attacks do damage health and do increase the skill relevant to what armour you are wearing (light, medium, or heavy). They do not damage the armour you are wearing. For reference, this was tested with Bloodmoon and Tribunal installed, and in the Shulk Egg Mine (not that the location should be relevant). Testing should be as simple as loading up on healing items, putting on some (repaired) armour and getting hit by Kwama Foragers. Rats do not seem to damage armour either. Skanky 08:35, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

I only just noticed this reply. Anarchangel is wrong yet again - no Kwama Forager has any spells, with the technical exception of the Blighted Kwama Forager, which has Ash Chancre - it is listed as a spell. Faulty memory would explain so much. rpeh •T•C•E• 22:39, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Well, I've tested this with both High armor skill and low armor skill with Kwama Forager, Cliff Racer, Nix Hound, Mud Crab, Scamp, Forst Atronach and Dremora. NONE of them (except the dremora) will damage your armor no matter how long the time (I got 10 skill ups each fight) - the dremora will do damage to your armor simply because it uses a weapon. So I'd guess that non-weapon damage (like hand to hand?) doesn't have any effect on your armor. There is one exception,though. If you have a shield and it manages to block such an attack, it will take damage. But only from blocks. -Meisterdieb 21:29, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

i know this is a old topic but its not the kwama forager that has paralyze, its the scrib so i think that there might of been a bit of confusion in this discussion (Eddie the head 09:15, 29 May 2011 (UTC))

I just checked this in-game by letting two Kwama Foragers wail on me for several minutes. They do damage armor, so it definitely shouldn't be on the article. They also hit so infrequently that training this way would take a loooong time. I've removed the Good Question tag. rpeh •T•C•E• 09:22, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Hints for leveling up / and there is a multiplier "cap" that needs addressing

A hints page focused on leveling up tactics would probably be well received - ideas like leaving your guy safely swimming into a bridge in downtown Balmora for hours to build up speed, or wearing complete suits of medium armor while a mudcrab 'attacks' you to build up your medium armor skill (and you just need to check your health every 15 or 20 minutes), etc etc.

But more importantly, there is a factual lack here, as the level up multipliers for the Attributes "go away" once all your Attributes hit a certain level. It isn't just when the multiplier would shoot your attribute past 100, the multipliers disappear sooner than that. The trigger is something like when all your attributes are past 75 points.

John Gilbert 99.139.49.251 02:16, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

You mean a page like this? ;-)

I haven't experienced the "factual lack" problem you describe either. I always get multipliers all the way up to 100 for each attribute except luck. rpeh •T•C•E• 07:34, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes - the hints page IS good, if sort of broad.

The limit on level up multipliers seems to be more complex than I can figure out, in my PC 'game of the year' version of Morrowind (no plug ins or add ons in use). My guy is going from level 21 to level 22, and starts with Str 95, Int 60, Will 50, Agi 70 Speed 100, End 100, Pers 55 and Luck at 70. I have been leveling up since level 15 just by training. I buy 10 Armorer (for Strength) and ten Speechcraft (for Personality), and I get a multiplier for the Personality but not for the Strength. I can do it with ten Armorer and ten Conjuration and get the same result - an Intelligence multiplier but not a Strength one. Armorer is a miscellaneous skill for me. I will try some other variations.

John Gilbert 99.139.49.251 22:50, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

I think it's just a glitch that comes up now and again. Sometimes I see it, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I'll see it one time I level up but not the next time. If you can track it down, that'd be great, but I have a feeling it's going to be seriously hard to do so. rpeh •T•C•E• 08:56, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

It's an issue with the attributes on the left side of the level up menu only. Looks like the official patch programmer was lazy and didn't test it properly. The level up code is a mess of copypasta. Hopefully fixed in MCP 1.8. --Hrnchamd 86.1.79.8 16:50, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, the 'limit' is just that Str, Int, Will and Agi cannot go from 95 to 100. They can go from 95 to 99, and then later on to 100. Speed, End and Per can all go from 95 to 100 in one shot. So when the top four skills are at 95, do NOT try for a 5x multiplier, because you get no multiplier then. But if you try for a 4x multiplier you will get that.

John Gilbert 99.139.49.251 21:29, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I confirm that, playing the GotY with the last official patch. Endurance goes from 95 to 100, Str doesn't, maximum annoyance. --85.52.70.164 10:44, 7 September 2012 (EDT)

I have always found it best to level to 94, and then use the +5 multiplier you get from training 10 skills to go to 99, but I suppose 95+4 will work just as fine. I didnt know that speed etc. Could be levelled 95+5. Fancy me learning something new about Morrowind after all these years, thanks:) For efficient levelling I really wouldnt train by doing actions on Morrowind. On oblivion this is a neccesity because you cant train more than 5 times per level, but Morrowind has no such restriction. By far the easiest way to train skills is to use a drain skill 100pts/ 1 sec on self. Simply cast the spell in front of a trainer and while it is active, talk to them and train the skill you drained. You can easily and cheaply train any skill to 100 that way, without master trainers. (And for 1gp per training session.) A drain skill spell can be bought from the dunmer in the basement of fort Moonmoth, customising it will cost about 70 gp at Balmora mages guild, if youre a member.

If you feel this is cheating, it is still easier to find a trainer you can use and pay for ten training sessions, than it is performing an action over and over, and certainly less tedious.

You can control levelling by training misc. skills to avoid it and major or minor to level. I would not recommend to put any endurance skills but one anywhere but misc. as there are only 3 skills for that attribute. Otherwise, its best to have at least one attribute as a minor or major skill, and no more than two, three tops. Morrowind has a lot of skills and Ive always found it best to have control over when I level rather than have favorite actions, books, quests etc. level too many major and minor skills and force a level. Having major skills you level without control like athletics and acrobatics is not advisable.

An altmer can, if you take care to choose his racial bonus skills as minor and misc only, reach level 74. This means you can level the first 14 times with three +5 attributes, and 15-74 with two +5 attr. and +1 luck to achieve 100 luck. Level endurance from lvl 1 is a must with +5 each level until 100 to achieve max health and fatigue.

--Merari 03:27, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Why wait so long for all 100s? With an average character, you can level 2*5 + 1-luck for 40-some levels, and then 1-luck until 60, to have all 100s. --Brf 18:27, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Because, the lower your initial attributes are, the higher the ultimate level you can achieve. A dunmer with the lady as starsign can never be as high a level. If you achieve 100 luck and have all attributes at 100, you are no longer able to level.

--Merari 23:05, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

That is not true. Your attributes being 100 do not prevent you from leveling. It is your Major and Minor Skills all hitting 100 that prevent you from leveling. If you want to achieve a higher level, you should not choose a Race that has big bonuses in your Major and Minor skills, such as choosing a Redguard with Longblade as one of those skills. Your inital attributes have no effect on your ability to level. --Brf 23:14, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Hmm after thinking about it for quite a bit, I think youre right. Its been a while since Ive played the game I guess. Most of what Ive said is still valid though, I know Ive never gotten a higher end level as with an altmer custom class, and never above lvl 74.

--Merari 06:47, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

There's no such thing as a max level in Morrowind. You can just pay a master trainer over and over again to train one of your important skills. Even though it doesn't increase, you can still level. rpeh •T•C•E• 10:27, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

yes, but thats cheating. Its a glitch.

--Merari 12:27, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Efficient levelling nonsense

In the section named Efficient leveling it says "At character creation: Ensure that you have either A: Three skills of each attribute amongst your Miscellaneous skills..."
That is impossble as there are 7 attributes with skills, so three miscellaneous in 7 attributes equals 21 skills and you have to distribute 5 majors and 5 minors to the left over 6 skills (27-21)!
-- MartinS

That's not actually what it says. At any rate, the idea is to distribute {skills governed by a given attribute} between your "featured" Skills (Major & Minor) and your Miscellaneous skills. This will allow for more flexible management of attribute increases as you progress from level to level. An example which contrasts with this line of thinking is the Witchhunter - all 4 Agility-governed skills are Major or Minor, so if you want to raise your character's Agility by 5 this level, you'll have to burn all 10 of your skill increases this level on Marksman, Light Armor, Sneak & Block, which doesn't give you any room to work on boosting your Conjuring or whatever. However, if you were to create a similar custom class with Light Armor as a Miscellaneous skill, you could increase this skill - and thus your Agility - without being forced to level up too quickly. It's just a suggestion for those who want to maintain some balance. 75.47.98.211 23:20, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Sigh... Yes that's what it said. Until I removed the nonsense after some time without an answer to this entry on this talk page. Patrollers: should I remove this entry from the talk page, so comments out of sync like the previous can be avoided? Or what is the procedure? -- MartinS 46.162.87.211 11:31, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

This happens, unfortunately. Just leave it - hopefully this will stop now. rpeh •T•C•E• 11:58, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

This material is almost impenetrable and needs an overhaul

I've re-re-re-read this about 5 times over the last four days, and it's really headache-inducing. Most of this is of no interest to the average player, and it's too dense and geeky for most people to ever get through at all, much less with full comprehension. The material needs to be split up and reorganized, either in sections or in entire pages. I would suggest it be done along the following lines:

There are essentially four approaches to leveling [in vanilla MW]:

• Strict roleplay: Selecting and working primarily on skills that pertain to your chosen class, race, and gaming style.
  • All Major and Minor skills are pertinent and frequently used. It is the most realistic and intuitive approach, and is what the average player will do by default.
  • This approach will make your character highly specialized, limit one's maximum attainable level (thus also health), and make some aspects of the later game more challenging (e.g., by requiring reliance on copious amounts of purchased potions, scrolls, and enchantments for a fighter- or thief-optimized character) because of underdevelopment of various skills.
  • In a nutshell: Intensely focused but frequently struggling.

• High level: Using "fast leveling" to go for the highest or near-highest possible character level (and, incidentally, health) by somewhat managing skill increases (in ways that are not always role-realistic), and leveling up as soon or nearly as soon as the option is available, thus delaying reaching the maximum of 100 on Skills and Attributes for as long as possible.
  • The primary consequence of this approach is that the characters' capabilities will be lower that those normally expected of a character of the same level, making creatures on the leveled list increasingly disproportionately potent compared to the player character, and making many quests available long before the character can handle them. It can also result in failure to raise every Attribute to 100, by eventually raising all Major and Minor Skills to 100 without sufficient leveling multipliers applied to Attributes to get them to 100 also. [We need a number-cruncher to analyze this. No one seems to have focused on the minimum multiplier application to eventually get Attributes to 100, only on how to get them there the fastest.]
  • What the best exact strategy for this will be isn't quite clear. It looks to me like it's raising misc. skills to get attribute bonuses on certain things when desired (e.g. to raise one's encumbrance limit) and when one of them is weak; and trying to distribute one's Major/Minor skill raises pretty evenly so that none of them march toward 100 out of step with the others. I may experiment directly with this on next play-through while attempting to determine what a balanced approach is.
  • In a nutshell: Heroic but limited.

• Maxed stats: Using "efficient leveling" to squeeze the maximum Attribute increases out of each level, to raise all Attributes to 100 as quickly as possible, then all Skills to that point, and without regard for the character's maximum level. Requires intense micromanagement of all stats.
  • This is the opposite of strict roleplay, and is highly unrealistic, since it requires having Major and Minor skills that the player almost never uses except for controlled leveling purposes, and relegation of the actually class-related skills to the miscellaneous skills category.
  • The main drawbacks of this approach are that it can "rapidly" (by level, not by time invested) make the player character "over-powered" and reduce the challenge of the game, even when set to a high difficulty. It will also limit the maximum attainable level, but without much effect given how powerful the character will be in every way. It can also result in absurd gameplay situations, e.g. Jump ability sending the character so high as to be killed upon landing, sometimes after being in the air for several real-time minutes and flying over entire mountains. There's a fine line between playing the game well and pursuing exploits that make the game not worth playing. An additional consequence (a positive one for those who don't like to repeatedly re-play a particular game like Morrowind) is it enables a single player character to do as many factions as possible in the same run-through of the game (since the character will be mega-competent as a fighter, a thief, and a mage, with all weapon types and all magic schools, all at once), instead of role-playing a particular focus and starting a new game for a different one with a radically different set of quests. About the only real choice will be whether you're going to be an Imperial loyalist or not, and even that can be worked around by using one's powers to force dispositions to change with ease.
  • In a nutshell: Godlike and untouchable.

• Balanced: A mixture of these approaches.
  • What this looks like in detail is still "to be determined". Virtually all of this page was written by efficient-leveling stat maxers. Following it assiduously will result in an OP character and a dull "I kill everything instantly" game. For many of us, a game like this isn't much fun unless we have to try a dozen or twenty times before we can beat the new enemy that just showed up.
  • In a nutshell: A balanced approach would hopefully result in a character who is competent, rounded but focused, and frequently challenged but never totally stuck.

The consequences of some of these approaches can be mitigated by moving the Difficulty setting. E.g., you can use fast but weaker leveling to get more rapid access to more of the game instead of fighting rats and crabs for a month, and just make the difficulty level easy so you can actually fight some of the new stuff you encounter without dying in one blow. The OP problem of efficient leveling can be somewhat dealt with by jacking up the difficulty, though I think one has to intentionally damage some of one's own skills and attributes (like Jump and Acrobatics) to make the resulting game not ridiculous in certain ways.

It's also clear that various mods take different approaches to this stuff. Some expect a typical role-playing user, while others are full of mega-badasses and clearly expect that the player has been using the efficient-leveling exploit to be god-like.

— Darklocq ^☎ ¢ 21:01, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

"Maxed stats" doesn't actually require you to manage every skill point. All you need to do to get perfectly efficient levels is the following:

• • Have at least one skill per attribute Misc (preferably two for Endurance)
  • Buy training in misc skills to get two x5s every time you get to 10/10, prioritising Endurance until it's maxed
  • Don't spam-jump everywhere if Acrobatics is a major or minor skill, and don't make Hand-to-hand a major or minor skill if you plan to use it (the issue with these is that they increase very rapidly, and you'll not have enough money to buy training)
  • Use the x5s and put the other point in Luck.

"Wasted" skill gains aren't very relevant, because the amount of skill gains available per stat greatly exceeds the amount you need to get everything to 100 (absolute worst-case scenario, all three Personality skills major for a female Orc, needs 130 controlled skill-ups - i.e. in sets of 10 - and has 200 available before maxing out; the total amount of skill-ups necessary to reach max stats is 820, and the amount of skill-ups available is 2300). The "static skills method" is totally unnecessary and arbitrary; there is no need to use it to get perfectly efficient levelling (as such, I'll be deleting it wholesale).

I would dispute the claim that efficient levelling by itself necessarily makes the game too easy; while it does make the game substantially easier, most of the things that make the game a complete cakewalk are largely skill-based and equipment-based rather than attribute-based. Alchemy skill of 100 plus a Master's set of alchemical apparatus lets you break the game over your knee with home-made potions (you don't even need the exponential exploits). A hundred thousand GP lets you buy custom enchantments of horrific power (for instance, Constant Effect Invisibility, which you can renew every time it's broken by simply unequipping and re-equipping the item, or Constant Effect Levitate which makes you essentially invulnerable in the open air). For that matter, boosting Enchant skill to 110 reduces charge cost of enchantments to 1 point. The main things that power-levelling attributes actually makes easier - as opposed to simply less frustrating, like higher encumbrance, faster movement or running out of magicka less often - are: 1) you have more health (via higher Endurance earlier) 2) weapon hit chances and spell casting chances slew somewhat more in your favour (via higher Willpower, Agility and Luck).

As for your question about how low attributes can end up being at max level, it depends on the assumptions made. The lowest max level is 69, and the highest (without tricks) 78, for 68-77 sets of attribute points. You need a total of 470 points to get to 100 in all stats (assuming no attribute-boosting birthsign). In theory, if you never make use of multipliers, and your max level is 69, you could get as little as 204 of the 470 points, or 43% of the way to max (stats mostly in the 60s). In practice, you'll always have enough multipliers to get five or six points per level-up (at least until you start maxing things out), so 340 or 72% is a more realistic minimum (stats mostly in the 80s) and higher is likely. A bigger difference is the significantly-lower Health you'll have if you don't rush Endurance; at level 71, a character with 30 starting Endurance will have gained only 210 Health if they didn't raise Endurance at all, but 655 if they maxed out Endurance ASAP with x5s - and the lower end of that range is quite possible (e.g. raising Endurance by x2 every second level would max out Endurance at level 71 but get only 455 Health gain). Magic9mushroom (talk) 11:52, 4 December 2019 (GMT)

Beyond max. level via Skill Books

You can easily go beyond the max level by reading skill books after you maxed out your minor or major skill. They still count to leveling. Why is this not mentioned in the article? — Unsigned comment by 151.252.219.30 (talk) at 14:37 on 5 August 2017

Needs confirmation, with exact details on the method and conditions. I know from experience this does not work in OpenMW, even if you use tricks like Drain Skill to temporarily reduce the skill's nominal value to under 100 ("drain and train") – this does not affect the base value of the skill. I've read (but not directly tested) that some of the code-patching projects for the original Bethesda engine have also fixed this exploit. It may work in vanilla, but if you could have a strength of 100 and just read a Strength-related skill book (Axe, or whatever) and get a point toward leveling again, without any conditions or tricks, I would think that, indeed, this article would have already mentioned this, given its excessive (obsessive?) level of minutiae.

As far as I know, the only reliable way to exceed maximum normal level, without using console cheats, and regardless of game engine, patched or not, is to go to jail enough times you drop at least Major/Minor Skill points to train them (and whatever else dropped) back up again. This is not a particularly painful process; at that level of PC development, you can easily recover your confiscated loot, you already know where high-level trainers are, and the gold cost of the training is a sneeze. You might even not want to train it all back up that quickly, since you may be over-powered already and may enjoy the slightly increased challenge of the damaged stats for a while.
— Darklocq ^☎ ¢ 02:22, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Formatting: Capitalize in-game attributes?

In-game attributes like "Major Skill" are sometimes written capitalized (all words), sometimes not (all words) and sometimes mixed like "Major skill" or "major Skill".

• Is there a general consensus about how to do it?
• Does it make a difference if the corresponding page is linked or not?

I'd go for all words capitalized like "Major Skill".

Not a big deal but I guess a consensus and consistence won't hurt ^^ FeXoR (talk) 11:25, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

I'd say always capitalize attributes and skills, including Health, Magicka, and Fatigue. That seems to be the most common practice throughout all namespaces. —Dillonn241 (talk) 06:26, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

cant level

it wont let me level up and when I increase a skill It does not count. Is it a glitch?

Moved Note

"If not writing down skill gains, you can simply level 10 Major/Minor skills. Whenever leveling attributes that are represented by fewer than three Miscellaneous skills, particularly Endurance and Personality, which have only three skills each, it is necessary to ensure that you gain enough points in any Major/Minor skills governed by these attributes to be able to reach a total of ten. You can begin leveling Miscellaneous skills once you have received the message encouraging you to "rest and meditate on what you've learned". Raise Miscellaneous skills by up to four points each for a total of ten. If you are writing down every single point, and have a skill for every attribute in M/M, it is possible to reduce the total number of Miscellaneous skills required for all three maximized multipliers to 20. Either 3 M/M + 7 Miscellaneous in two attributes, and 4 M/M + 6 Miscellaneous in one. Or 4 M/M + 6 Miscellaneous in two attributes, and 2 M/M + 8 Miscellaneous in one."

I can't really determine what this note was suggesting to do, and it makes a fairly solid section very confusing as the final word in it. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 01:28, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

It just seems to be a bunch of math nonsense. If I am not counting, I simply train levels in Miscellaneous skills. There is no requirement to have any specific number of each skill. Typically I train 10 levels in a skill that is low enough to afford. The Endurance example is an easy one. There are trainers for all three of Heavy Armor, Medium Armor, and Spear right there in the Balmora Guild of Fighters. Just train whichever ones that are Miscellaneous skills. The math examples at the end, splitting Major/Minor/Misc are really nitpicking. Personally, I never level three attributes anyway, prefering to increase Luck each level. Brf (talk) 16:26, 11 January 2024 (UTC)