Lore talk:Sanguine

'Sanguine' Meaning

'Sanguine' only means 'bloody' with reference to sanguine sketching chalk and then it was a simple reference to its coppery-red colour; see Leonardo Da Vinci's sketches for an example of what it looks like. Sanguine does not reference 'blood' or 'bloody' in the sense of temperamental violence or gore. Hey, but if that was the intention of the creators of the game then who am I to complain? I'll leave it in but it seems wrong to me.--Wangpangu 12:43, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

It can also mean cheerful, carefree, or complacent. All of its meanings seem to be related to the Red Humors of blood.74.65.142.202 15:01, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Dark Brotherhood

IS there a reason that the dark brotherhood's Password to gain entry to the sanctuary is Sanguine??--VergilSparda 15:24, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Presumably because of its association with blood. See http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sanguine. rpeh •T•C•E• 14:59, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Ahh, I understand now --VergilSparda 22:08, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

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I think that there should be something mentioned in the article about the password to the Dark Brotherhood sanctuary.

"What is the color of the night?" "Sanguine, my brother."

--Serial Velocity 15:20, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Daedric Realm

Does Sanguine have a Deadric Realm or Sphere? If so whats the name and description of it? Chaosian 04:42, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

You can find them on Lore:Oblivion. Sanguine's Realm is here. --DKong27 ^{Talk Cont} 13:12, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Sanguine don't exactly mean bloody

Sanguine is the ablative form of sanguis in Latin, which means blood. This form is used after ablative prepositions, which requires a definite article. For example, de sanguine = of the blood, a sanguine = from the blood, ad sanguinem = to a blood, color sanguinis = the blood's colour, etc. When it becomes an English word, it becomes the adjective for anything associated with blood. "Bloody" is an equivalent but bad thing is when you talk about bloody, it always goes to violence. No, sanguine doesn't have a sense of violence. It is simply about the association to blood in a simple manner. For example, the system in your body responsible to deliver blood, including your heart and all the pipes, is called the sanguine system, or the bloody system. I guess the Lore should be responsible to explain that this word doesn't have anything to do with violence. Besides, the password of the Dark Brotherhood should means, the colour of the night being brought from blood, or in bloody red. It is simply a depiction of violence already done, not to invoke more violence. --Joshua.yathin.yu 04:45, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Any etymology on the pages should be in the context of the TES universe. That is, we don't include the real-world origins of various words, only their history and/or connotations in the Elder Scrolls world. If the note currently on the page is a real-world interpretation of "sanguine", and not one derived from the Elder Scrolls media, it will be removed. Minor Edits 04:52, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Sanguine's gender

While even as far back as Daggerfall, Sanguine was almost universally depicted as male, the text at Daggerfall:Sanguine Rose uses the phrase "Sanguine herself". Is this text directly lifted from the game, or is it unique to this site? If it's in the game, I'd say that it should be mentioned on this page. If not, I'd say it's an error and should be fixed. Are there any other references that describe Sanguine as female? I know there's some ambiguity with some of the other Daedra, but Sanguine seems to be consistently referred to in the masculine with this one exception. TheRealLurlock (talk) 12:04, 1 November 2012 (GMT)

I believe those descriptions are taken from the game. —Legoless (talk) 13:37, 1 November 2012 (GMT)

Sanguine & King Olaf?

During the burning of King Olaf festival a priest named Rorlund says before it begins that "I believe Sanguine would be pleased with this festival". Is this because it shows that someone is being burned and that is something a deadra would do and so he is disapproving or does Sanguine have some history with King Olaf? --Nikolai5 (talk) 21:49, 6 January 2013 (GMT)

He says it because it's a party, hopefully one to make the God of Revelry proud. Sanguine Prince (talk) 01:52, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

Enemies

On tghe house of Dibella Daggerfall page, it states that Sanguine is an enemy of Dibella. The house of Dibella is allied with the Benevolence of Mara, which is already stated as enemy. Shouldn't we include Dibella as an enemy? -- Kharwog 01:22, 17 June 2013

Lack of sources for information

Can someone update this article with sources? For example I have no idea where the information for "Fittingly, he often appears on the seals and signs of brothels and whorehouses. Sanguine is depicted as a portly man with a dremora-like head with horns, always with a bottle in his hand or a whore under his thumb." comes from. — Unsigned comment by 86.135.143.125 (talk) at 22:49 on 22 April 2017 UTC

I've added a {{vn}} tag for the "seals and signs of brothels" assertion, since I can't find anything about that either. The physical description is based on his appearance in the games, as can be seen in the gallery below; not sure how we should cite that. —Legoless (talk) 00:33, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Id like to add that in DaggerFall, the in game Description of the Sanguine Rose states that Sanguine is a Female. "Somewhere in Oblivion a new rose blooms and is plucked by Sanguine herself to be given to a new champion.". this might just be an oversight error tho as his form in daggerfall is a fat goblin with red skin holding the skin of a woman.

Chizmad (talk) 01:30, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

As for the "Sanguine HERself" bit, it's worth remembering that gender is meaningless to Daedra. Sanguine Prince (talk) 01:53, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

Sangiin's Thirst

I really don't think we should claim that Nisaazda summoned a manifestation of Sanguine in Moongrave Fane. For one, the creature being named "Sangiin's Thirst" doesn't seem like enough evidence that the creature is an echo of the Prince. Perhaps she's drawing from his power or something, but we have no information on how that ritual works (aside from the fact she uses blood and shadow magic during the fight), so we shouldn't be making assumptions.

On her dialogue: "Sanguine spirit, take form and feast!" "Nisaazda grants you the strength of shadows!"

This doesn't tell me she's summoning Sanguine. Both lines are Nisaazda calling the blood monster. The first one is too vague for me to be certain, and I don't want to mislead our readers. "Sanguine spirit" could just mean "blood specter". For all we know, Sangiin's Thirst is a glorified Hemonculous; we literally know nothing about the creature. As for the second one, Nisaazda presumably doesn't need to grant Sanguine any sort of power. Is she imbuing a generic blood ghost with his power? Perhaps she's invoking him to empower it? Unless anyone can give me any more specific evidence, I don't think we should be making any assumptions, and doing so likely delves into original research territory. There is not enough dialogue recorded on that page to make me absolutely certain that the claim that she summons Sangiin and tempts him with the promise of a feast is a factual claim.

As for the change to Sangiin Sacrifice: it's the name of a synergy; we don't know if it's the name of the actual ritual ("actual name" meaning "that's what the cultists call it"). It's just a blood sacrifice. If an enemy in ESO used a skill called the "Touch of Molag Bal", I wouldn't add anything about that to Lore:Molag Bal unless we had something concrete beyond the name of the skill. It feels like we're grasping at straws to find things to say about Sanguine by mentioning the name of the synergy, and fabricating the in-universe names of rituals (as in, names used by the cultists and not ones created for gameplay mechanic purposes) to have something interesting to show. The cultists don't call it a Sangiin Sacrifice, that's just the name of the synergy. Synergy names can be on-the-nose sometimes, but this doesn't seem like something we should take and use in lore unless we have another use of the term in a non-gameplay setting. In the very least, it should be something more than the name of a synergy. -MolagBallet (talk) 06:14, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Fair points, perhaps not an echo of the prince, but its definitely related to him. While sanguine can have multiple meanings, Sangiin only ever refers to the prince. The name of it is still Sangiin's Thirst and the ritual is still called Sangiin Sacrifice, these aren't metaphorical, they straight up implicate the prince. It's not just the abilities or dialogue to back this up, its the numerous books in the ruin and regarding the Khajiiti Sangiin that quite heavily associate him with vampires. Similar to how Scalecaller Peak is the dungeon involving Peryite without having him directly appear, it's quite obvious Moongrave Fane is the dungeon meant to involve Sanguine.

So I'd still keep the image of the Sangiin's Thirst but yeah it should likely be worded differently, since while its definitely named after Sangiin its probably just a regular blood creature summoned through magic venerating him. The sigil itself, I don't think think its unique to just Sangiin but I can't remember if its used anywhere else. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 06:35, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

Rim has summarised my thinking on the matter. Let's keep the reference to Sangiin's Thirst and reword as appropriate. —⁠Legoless (talk) 17:59, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

Agreed. There's no doubt these things are related to Sangiin, the information was merely presented in a way that didn't seem quite right the first time around. -MolagBallet (talk) 05:47, 29 December 2020 (UTC)