Lore talk:Lefthanded Elves

prod

I have removed the prod. Given that we have gotten a lot of new info about Yokuda in ESO, it is entirely possible we will get new information about them. Jeancey (talk) 03:48, 9 June 2014 (GMT)

I also contest this deletion. Small pages aren't a problem, and lorespace in particular is purposefully designed to be easily transcluded onto larger articles. No reason to prod or merge at all. —Legoless (talk) 15:57, 9 June 2014 (GMT)

They are mentioned in the loading screens in ESO. Just as a followup that are, in fact, mentioned again and that the page shouldn't be deleted. Jeancey (talk) 16:39, 24 July 2014 (GMT)

UOL

UOL should only be used when it is explaining In-game things. The size of the Lefthanded Elves empire is not an In-Game anything, thus that UOL is inappropriate. In addition, ALL UOL is supposed to have a talk page before being added, which people have just been ignoring, so I'm going to start this talk page post so we can discuss whether the other UOL added is appropriate. If UOL should be added to this page, it should follow the policies that we have previously decided on from UESPWiki:Lore. Jeancey (talk) 17:42, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

This all seems like information important to expanding on the Lefthanded Elves and should be restored. Can't understand the objection here, UOL is not for "explaining in-game things", it is to "provide a rounder background". With so little other info available on this race, it seems completely appropriate. —⁠Legoless (talk) 00:36, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Gonna have to agree with lego, I don’t think Uol should ever be the basis for an articles existence, but imo is well used when fleshing out things that have little info otherwise like the left handed elves. Reminds me of my additions to the Tosh Raka article, as it stood he had only a solitary in game source, but with some Uol the page was able to be fleshed out a bit. (Dcking20)

Agreed with the two aforementioned comments. There wasn’t much UOL info added, one statement said that the Orichalc Tower was involved in their wars (a name confirmed official in-game by the Augur of the Obscure), another statement that they had a large empire (we knew they lived on a whole continent), and another that the Yokudans “drowned them” (like what happened with the continent).

If this is about how UOL must relate to in-game info, then I believe the issue would be a misunderstanding of the policy, which is more about not creating articles based off things that exist only within UOL (like how one can’t create a page for Juban-Sul from C0DA, since he only appears in that book), the Lefthanded Elves already exist in-game. If it’s about stating how UOL info can only add info onto in-game statements, it seems to be quite the paradox, since I recall UOL citations being removed after new in-game lore further cements info first introduced by UOL. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 01:05, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Update: With what Jeancey told me and Legoless to clear things up regarding the page, the other two points seemed to be agreed upon as fine, and we should instead discuss the topic of the Lefthanded Elves’ empire. The source comes from Cyrus’ Meeting with Vivec where one character mentions the Left-Handers having an empire four times the size of what the white king’s (Tiber Septim’s) would be at the time, presumably all of Tamriel if the dominion was conquered by that point. The issue seems to arise from Yokuda not being four times the size of Tamriel, I would like to point out though, Yokuda was originally much larger (though we don’t know how big) and the islands on the Redguard map are usually considered what’s left of it.

I think at the very least we should say “The Left-handed Elves had a large empire.” Any more indication of its size would be worded like “it was allegedly four times the size of the Septim Empire” or “it was described as supposedly being four times the size of the empire” etc. That info would be optional to add, but I think all we do need is the line I wrote at the beginning of this paragraph just about them having empire. I’d also like to propose adding a small note (not directly related to the info about the empire) about how “Elven influence from when Yokuda suffered under Elven rule may have found its way into Yokudan language.” from the Redguard Forum Madness. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 19:15, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

I think "The left-handed elves had a large empire" is supportable. I don't think we should even allege that it was four times the size of Septim's empire, as We know (roughly) the size of Nirn from the various globes in several games, and we know the size of Tamriel in relation to those globes. I definitely think that saying their empire is four times the size of Septims empire is logically inconsistent with what we are presented with in-game regarding the size of tamriel in-relation to all the other continents (mainly, that it is larger or equal in size to all the other major land masses, past or present, since the breakup of Aldmeris).

In addition, I think the support is clearly present for the other two points, but I'd like to wait the full week that is usually given for these sorts of discussions (so Friday the 14th) before we add them back to the page. I wouldn't be opposed to a "snowball" argument however and adding them back sooner. Jeancey (talk) 22:21, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. While the size of Tamriel on Nirn is not fully known (I would not count this globe since it is evidently Tamriel-centric) even in extreme depictions of Yokuda like LadyN's map, it is at most 2 times the size of Tamriel, so saying it is four times the size has implications better off not worth putting on the page. I'd considered everything settled. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 22:18, 12 August 2020 (UTC)