Lore talk:Dragon Break

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middle dawn[edit]

Oi. The Middle Dawn is all dragon breaks, or is it The Middle Dawn, just the Marukhati one? Sources only associate it with the latter, but it is called a middle dawn because the Dawn Era returns in parenthesis, and it is a very apt term. Perhaps the article should dither instead- 'it has been sometimes described as a-" In which case one of my edits should be reverted. Temple-Zero 22:26, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

Revision[edit]

I made a revised version of this page in a sandbox. It includes some OOG citations, and the Dragon Break is a pretty complicated topic, so I thought it best to propose it here first. There is an enormous amount of OOG regarding Dragon Breaks (probably more material than can be found in the games), so I think the OOG cites I included are extremely modest in context. They're focused on clarifying the relevant in-game content (and they're limited to the Notes section anyways).

The article contains some comments that border on "original research". Most were already present on the page and had been for years, and seem accurate to me, but I can't think of appropriate in-game citations to them. For example, the introduction: few if any (in-game) cites are available to explain exactly what a Dragon Break is, unless someone out there knows of a game/character where is it explained in dialogue.

I included the note about the "kalpa" because it seemed the most relevant to this page, and what the term meant didn't seem to be explained anywhere else even though other pages make reference to it. Minor Edits 13:26, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

ESO Contradication[edit]

The recent edition makes note of the inclusion of WWYWTDB in ESO, with similar occurrences of out of place books being widely noted across the site. As it seems the devs have a valid excuse, there is some issue with space-time at this point in history, I believe we can safely ignore most of these transgressions as being unimportant, but I'm unsure of this one. Any thoughts? --AKB Talk Cont Mail 05:49, 1 July 2014 (GMT)

My preference has been to err on the side of treating such things as intentional (i.e. not just developer/writer error), which is why I added the mention. I know that there are plenty of anachronisms in ESO which are pretty clear mistakes, but in this specific case it seemed like the inclusion of the book in ESO could easily be treated as canon, and, who knows, may even have been intentional. I won't be too unhappy if this note is taken back out, but I thought that it was justifiable and interesting/amusing enough for to be noteworthy. Quantheory (talk) 06:02, 1 July 2014 (GMT)
I understand that logic, but I am not too positive it fits in with the lore article, it seems to gamey for me. Perhaps a move to the relevant ESO article would be the best course of action? --AKB Talk Cont Mail 06:14, 1 July 2014 (GMT)
I was going to say that Where Were You... is a book about the Middle Dawn dragon break, not the Warp in the West, but then I remembered it specifically mentions the Warp in the West in the Khajiiti section, which definitely means it was written after 3E 417. I think we may as well continue to note books that occur in ESO out of their time; where do the devs mention there is some space-time issue? I thought it was just fans trying to accommodate for their incompetence rather than an official statement by them. If official and sourceable, perhaps it is something that could directly be added to this page as a lore-occurrence of another Dragon Break? --Enodoc (talk) 08:25, 1 July 2014 (GMT)
The Gandranen Ruins load screen kind of offers a partial explanation: "Tales say that Gandranen was built by an Ayleid sorcerer, a worshiper of Hermaeus Mora who so loved books that she created a series of magical halls that would attract books from across Tamriel, no matter where—or when—they were published."Legoless (talk) 12:52, 1 July 2014 (GMT)
I've made some tweaks. I'm fine with its current state. I cut the last sentence in the WWYDB note - "It is perhaps fitting that a book describing Dragon Breaks would be published before the events it describes, but the origin of this prophetic work is still a mystery." We know these books appeared in the Second Era, but when they were published is a different thing altogether. Anyways, the sentence in general seemed unnecessary, though I agree with the sentiment. Insignificant RevisionsThreatsEvidence 00:58, 10 August 2014 (GMT)

Note on Irony of The Dragon Break Reexamined?[edit]

In The Dragon Break Re-Examined, the scholar Fal Droon attempted to debunk the Middle Dawn, and thus the "doctrine of the Dragon Break" in general. The book first appeared in TESIII: Morrowind, which took place in 3E 427. Droon writes of the fall of the Septim Dynasty in the past tense, even though it would not occur for another six years, suggesting that Droon did not actually write the text until after end of the Septim Dynasty and the Third Era. Thus, his book ironically seems to corroborate that Tamriel is susceptible to distortions in time such as the Dragon Break.

I don't know think the UESP has formally acknowledged this, but it's about time to do so somewhere. A note on this page seems like the perfect place. Insignificant RevisionsThreatsEvidence 17:31, 8 November 2014 (GMT)

Is that quoted from somewhere? Seems like a good note. —Legoless (talk) 18:06, 8 November 2014 (GMT)
Definitely worth including. -- Hargrimm(T) 18:42, 8 November 2014 (GMT)
Not quoted from anywhere. I just wrote it up this morning, relying on memory of a couple forum conversations where this wrinkle was highlighted (honestly, I never noticed until someone pointed it out). Any similarity to preexisting works elsewhere would be entirely coincidental and unintentional. As for being a good note, well, give a monkey a typewriter and enough time, it's bound to happen eventually. ;) Insignificant RevisionsThreatsEvidence 19:11, 8 November 2014 (GMT)

Pelinal[edit]

I don't know if it's appropriate to describe the "Time Wound" as a type of dragon break while all the others on this page are described as specific events. My suggestion would be to move Pelinal's to its own section, or to restructure the page such that it describes these "types of Dragon Breaks," although I'm also not clear on what that means. I don't think the literature is either. —Atvelonis (talk) 21:38, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Removed info[edit]

The below has been removed from the page. I figure I should move it here for discussion about where this info might go. —⁠Legoless (talk) 13:23, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

The Time-Wound[edit]

The banishment of Alduin (Skyrim)

Possibly the first Dragon Break in known history was in Skyrim during the Merethic Era, and it served to bring about the end of the Dragon War.[1] The ancient Nords confronted Alduin himself, the First-Born of Akatosh and leader of the dragons.[2][3] With no conventional means to defeat the wyrm, their ancient champions instead used an Elder Scroll and the power of the thu'um to create a "Tid-Ahraan", or Time-Wound, and thereby eject Alduin from their time, propelling him into the future.[1] His temporary defeat cleared the way for Nordic civilization to emerge as it is known today. This distortion of time and space had some similarities to other Dragon Breaks, though it has not been explicitly described as one.

A Time-Wound also appeared at the peak of the Sunspire when Alkosh shouted Pelinal Whitestrake out of Elsweyr.[4]

By way of update, this has been moved to Lore:Time Wound now. —⁠Legoless (talk) 01:49, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

ESO = Dragon Break[edit]

Confirmed by Rich Lambert, ESO creative director on stream:

https://clips.twitch.tv/LittleHelplessPeafowlPoooound-xyBODoKa6Mw30iOE — Unsigned comment by Ode2Order (talkcontribs) at 23:35 on 31 July 2021

This is not a valid source. We generally allow for developer commentary to be taken into consideration on lore pages, but an off-handed (and possibly tongue-in-cheek) reaction from Rich Lambert during a dungeon run livestream is not lore in any conceivable sense. —⁠Legoless (talk) 11:55, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
Yeah, unless Lambert clarifies that he was serious I wouldn't take a one word response to a question as gospel. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 03:56, 3 August 2021 (UTC)