Dragonborn talk:Chaos Damage

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Created Stub[edit]

I just created the page as a stub until we can either link it somewhere or fill out the full information. Could someone else go through and add any relevant information, as well as the "stub" box? I would do it myself, but I created this page as a last minute work before going to bed...... Gamer3427 (talk) 10:47, 22 December 2012 (GMT)

I made the page into a proper article; could use info from game data. ~ Psylocke 12:36, 22 December 2012 (GMT)
I guess I'm a bit responsible for this by creating a link to it, but a problem is that Chaos Damage is an enchantment, not a magic effect. It will probably be useful to document that enchantment in some way however. --Alfwyn (talk) 12:56, 22 December 2012 (GMT)
Well, I simply followed Fire Damage's layout. Until the generic magic weapons/armor and their enchantments are sorted, I guess this page will do, for now. ~ Psylocke 13:02, 22 December 2012 (GMT)
Yeah, it's a bit strange anyway, that we document magic effects you can't really interact with, but not enchantments you can learn. Well, we document them a bit at Enchantments but enchantments like "Fortify (Magic School) and Magicka Regen" cause already problems. Chaos damage makes that just more obvious. We probably don't want to put basically the same information onto the Fire, Frost and Shock damage pages (Dragonborn added 50% chance versions of them). --Alfwyn (talk) 13:09, 22 December 2012 (GMT)

Enhancement by perks[edit]

Interestingly, the enchantment seems to be affected by all three of Augmented Flames/Frost/Shock at the same time, or at least displays that way. A mage character of mine, who has all three perks at rank two, shows the Champions Cudgel as having a 50% changes for each element to do 84 points of damage. 25 points base damage times 1.5 times 1.5 times 1.5 is 84.375 damage. Quillan (talk) 12:49, 12 February 2013 (GMT)

I can confirm it makes for an absurdly powerful weapon.--Vukodlak (talk) 08:53, 15 February 2013 (GMT)

Does anyone know if damage is effected by enchanting perks (fire/frost/storm enchanter)?

I have the same thing, plus level 100 enchanting and all relevant perks in enchanting. I'm looking at the effect on a Stalhrim Sword with a Grand Soul, and the result is 202 points of damage. I was hoping to make a balanced Stahlrim weapon with this (I'm level 81 and I've dabbled in Fortify Restoration), but this is ridiculous even compared what I've made with exploits. I'll have to tone it down.--Playerseekingbugs (talk) 21:27, 13 April 2013 (GMT)
Yes, it gets excessive. It's affected by all three of the elemental enchant boosters, all of the elemental destruction masteries, the Stalhrim bonus, and the 'boost enchant power' skill (the first one in the tree), and a potion of enchanting. I haven't done the math exactly, but it should come out to an average of 400 or so dmg per hit.-- 01:59, 14 April 2013 (GMT)
With Dual Enchanting and all other relative enchanting perks, I noticed Destruction magical effects play off each other--- an example would be an absorb health axe for my dead thrall (since thralls can't heal themselves usually); without the Chaos damage it'll absorb 30 point per hit... but as soon as I add the Chaos damage effect (at any magnitude) BOOM! it jumps to absorb 101 per hit. I pick the weakest Chaos damage setting to get more hits in before needing to recharge the weapon. 14:30, 9 June 2013 (GMT)
Noticed the same behaviour with non-Destruction effects: using Fear/Turn Undead/Banish at 100 Enchanting/Illusion/Restoration/Conjuration and all perks in all trees has magnitude as 27. Adding Chaos Damage as second effect bumps the magnitude to 91. — Unsigned comment by (talk) at 17:54 on 9 August 2013
I'm going to add a note to the page, as this seems like it's worth mentioning.FrozenWolf150 (talk) 20:35, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Custom Chaos enchantment real power[edit]

The power of chaos enchantment when applied to weapon by the player is not as high. Only the final effect (shock damage) is scaled with enchanting skill and perks. Since bonus from Stalhrim works the same as enchanting perk, it affects the shock damage only as well. The first two (fire and frost) remain 10 at all time, unless under the effect of Augmented Flames/Frost/Shock, in which case they can only rise to at maximum 33 (or 42 if the player wear Dukan, Ahzidal or Zakriisos). I think this should be noted and the damage of the enchantment as described in Notes section needs to be changed as well. 13:19, 19 June 2013 (GMT)

Can we get some confirmation on this? It always seemed to work as the guide currently describes for me, and I maxed the enchantment as high as I could.-- 01:15, 7 September 2013 (GMT)
Confirmed on PC version with Unofficial Dragonborn Patch v2.0.0, aided by console commands. However, the fire damage is 5–6.5% greater than the frost damage (in my testing, the fire damage varied subtly from hit to hit, whereas the frost/shock damage did not... very strange). -- 06:02, 3 November 2013 (GMT)
Does anyone know what is actually causing this? This bug should be noted, it seems, but I would like a bit more information as we now have conflicting reports on whether or not this is the case. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 11:08, 3 November 2013 (GMT)
I started digging into the game data using the Creation Kit for the first time and found that the extra fire damage is caused by that effect having a taper duration whereas the other two effects do not. The taper duration is an extension of the effect with a nonlinear, diminishing magnitude. Most fire damage effects seem to use this feature. For the fire damage from Chaos Damage enchantment, this feature theoretically provides a 6.666...% damage bonus, but in my experience it seems to vary between 5% and 6.5%, depending on framerate and effect magnitude, due to numerical imprecision and/or calculation bugs in the game engine.
As for why only the shock damage is affected by the enchantment strength slider, I discovered through experimentation that this is a straight-up game engine limitation. Multi-effect enchantments such as Chaos Damage can only have at most ONE of their effects be controlled by the strength slider, even if all of them are tagged as having a variable magnitude. The one selected is the one with the highest cost. In the case of Chaos Damage, the shock damage effect has a higher cost than the other two effects (7 vs. 6 and 6) and therefore that is the one that gets controlled by the slider. The order of the effects as shown in the CK does not matter (unless there's a tie, maybe). -- 05:31, 4 November 2013 (GMT)
It's not an engine limitation as it's working for me. I'm guessing one of my mods fixed it (probably Enchantment Reload Fix, as suggested by the guy that discovered the glitch). I set a wolf's HP to 1000 and hit it with a 6 damage dagger enchanted with 48 magnitude chaos. A triple proc did ~153 damage, as expected. --Rayzorium (talk) 05:35, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
Either way, the problem persists despite USLEEP today as of 3/14/2016. If you think this problem is not game engine limitation, I hope you've brought it up to the Unofficial Patch team. Dark wizzie (talk) 07:40, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
I took a look, out of curiosity. This appears to be a genuine engine limitation that Enchantment Reload Fix addresses via SKSE, bringing into question whether or not we want to cover on this wiki bugs that USLEEP can't and won't fix but that can be fixed using other mods. Details here: https://afktrack.iguanadons.net/index.php?a=issues&i=15199 Direct link to ERF: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/52717/? Quindraco (talk) 19:23, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Very odd behavior if applied with Absorb Health enchantment on stalhrim weapons[edit]

I had the enchanting skill tree filled up, and so could double enchant weapons. I chose to put a Absorb Health and Chaos Damage enchantment on a stalhrim sword, knowing that the Chaos effect would be boosted because of the frost enchantment's interaction with the stalhrim. I first applied the Absorb Health and the display told me that it would absorb 25 points of health per hit, which is more or less what I expected. But after I applied the Chaos Damage enchantment, the Absorb Health went up to 84 points, resulting in an absolutely murderous weapon. The same thing happened when I enchanted a stalhrim mace in the same way. Something's piggybacking on something that it shouldn't. 07:21, 25 March 2014 (GMT)

I'd wager it isn't a bug with enchant perks, and the enchantment really only absorbs 25 health. I'd also wager the enchantment only does less than a third as much chaos damage as it displays. I suspect the cause isn't the elemental enchanter perks, but the six destruction perks for augmented fire/frost/shock damage. The weapon's enchantment is correctly calculated for your enchanting skill, enchanting perks, and the stalhrim bonus on just the chaos damage. However, while in your possession the weapon's enchantment counts as an elemental destruction spell, so you personally gain three 1.5x damage bonuses that stack multiplicatively for 3.375x damage for both effects. That should make a 25 point enchantment perform like an 84.375 point enchantment. There's several ways you can check this: if I'm right, the same absorb health/chaos enchantment on a non-stalhrim weapon should still absorb 84 health, but only do 80% as much chaos damage. Wearing Zahkriisos/Dukaan/Ahzidal masks should improve both effects. And resetting destruction perks or making destruction legendary should drop the displayed damage to the expected value. The other consequence is that the weapon will only absorb 25 health in the hands of most followers, unless they have destruction perks.-- 21:12, 11 May 2014 (GMT)

Defending against Chaos Damage[edit]

Chaos damage is affected by all perks that augment the elements in both Destruction and Enchanting tree right? Then how about elemental resistance? Do they stack against it as well? Here's a scenario to clarify : A PC without Magic Resistance, but equipping Otar (30% resistance to all three elements) and blocking with Elemental Protection Perk (50% resistance to all three elements), thus 80% resistance to all three elements, how much will the damage taken be? The possibilities :

  1. 20% for any element that fires
  2. 0,8% for any element that fires 14:43, 6 October 2014 (GMT)

The description suggest, that it is halves the damage after magic resistances, so the damage should be: (X * (1-0,3))/2 -> 35% damage
Gyuuula (talk) 07:19, 19 December 2014 (GMT)